[Italionstallion888]

I made the switch to dry ferts about 6 months ago. I've had pretty good growth with my dosing schedule. I've had to back down a bit as my nitrate levels refused to come down from 40-60, even after frequent large water changes with nitrate at 0.

I'm finally getting the nitrates down, I was able to get a heater hooked up so I can use my r/o unit again.

I have almost an entire bottle of Seachem flourish left over from when I was doing the seachem line. How much of a difference is there between the csm+b and flourish. Would it be overkill to use both in the tank? (55g well planted btw) I've noticed my corymosa's new growth is a bit deformed, bright green but a bit twisted and not growing a full leaf (only seems to grown half the side of the leaf) I'm wondering if I'm missing something in my dosing. I've only had the corymbosa in the tank for a few weeks, my giant hygro is doing very well. So I'm a bit confused.

 

[ipkiss]

I'm not sure if I would be using both at the same time. It does sound like overkill since some of their nutrients overlap -- unless you lower each dose accordingly. Perhaps use up the flourish first or alternate weeks?

 

[Italionstallion888]

I have to use tap water during the winter time, generally I use a 75% r/o to 25% tap for my water changes. I've been using tap (20ppm nitrate) water since nov, my nitrates shot up really hight. So I stopped dosing kno3 and stuck with kh2po4, csm+b and seachem iron twice a week.

When I made my liquid solution I used the calc to deteremine the amount of grams of each per 500ml solution. I'm not 100% I did it correctly. I'm probably going to ask for help on that once I run out at the end of the month. I'm still learning/figuring out the dry ferts and how much/when. It was easy when I was using the r/o as a water change would drop the nitrates from 40 to 15, my water changes were based on my nitrate number.

 

[Zapins]

I've noticed my corymosa's new growth is a bit deformed, bright green but a bit twisted and not growing a full leaf (only seems to grown half the side of the leaf) I'm wondering if I'm missing something in my dosing.

Can you post a few up close photos of the plants and maybe a few of the other plants in the tank? Take pictures of any damaged areas you see.

 

[Italionstallion888]

I will snag some photos of the corymbosa tonight, all of the other plants in the tank are growing great.

here is the tank for reference
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=372121&highlight=

 

[Zorfox]

Sounds like you have the raw material to experiment and decide for yourself about CSM or Flourish.

Why not dose CSM for a couple of months or so and watch plant growth, health etc. Then change to flourish for traces and iron. You can easily calculate an equivalent using a nutrient calculator. I would love to see the difference.

In regards to your corymosa's new growth, post photos. Zapin's is quite knowledgeable about deficiencies and/or toxicities of aquatic plants. You won't find too many out there more familiar on the subject.

 

[Italionstallion888]

 

[Zapins]

What is your GH reading? Are you adding calcium or magnesium? If so, how much are you adding?

 

[Italionstallion888]

I added diy co2 to this tank on black friday, I put the hygro in the tank mid to late dec.

KH: 4
GH: 6
PH: 7.0

For my liquid solutions I did the following
(500ml of r/o)
kno3
98.75g

kh2po4
16.27g

csm+b
57.97g

Kno3-sunday, tuesday, thursday
kh2po4-sunday, tuesday, thusday
5ml of solution each

csm+b-Monday, Wednesday, saturday
Seachem iron: Monday, wednesday

non + root tabs under the main plants and then spaced out from there about every 5-6 inches.

I am pulling 20 gallons of water out weekly, figuring it's a 55g, with 5 inches of substrate, I was only at 45g of water in the tank.

I have no idea what my calcium or magnesium are at. I'm going to look up how to test for those.

 

[Italionstallion888]

I'm going to swing by the lfs tonight and grab a CA test kit, I will report back tomorrow with my findings.

 

[Zapins]

Sounds good, I'll wait for that.

 

[Italionstallion888]

from what i've found the only magnesium testing kits are for salt water tanks, will they work the same on a planted tank or will I be fine just knowing the Ca numbers?

 

[Zapins]

Yes, you can use the GH test and the Ca test to calculate the Mg level. Basically only Ca and Mg make up GH so it is a simple subtraction to find out Mg levels. Sometimes the LFS will have a calcium test kit there that they can use to test your water for you for free.

 

[Italionstallion888]

Thanks Zapins, I post numbers tonight or in the morning.

I know my calcium has to be low, I'm having issues with keeping mystery snails alive. The last 3 became hollow, falling apart messes pretty quickly.

 

[Italionstallion888]

Gh:6
Calcium:120ppm

 

[Zapins]

Something isn't adding up.

Since 1 ppm = 0.056 German degrees then 120*0.056 = 6.72 degrees GH, which is above the 6 degrees you measured, and if true leaves no space for any Mg (so your Mg levels are likely low, which is ok).

1 °dH (°dH) German hardness: Ca and/or Mg salt, which is equivalent to 1 °dH=17.85 mg/l calcium carbonate (CaCO3) which means you can have a max of 106.8 ppm Ca.

Whatever the numbers actually are it seems that there is calcium in the tank and so the problem is unlikely to be a lack of calcium which causes warping/curling of new leaves. Along the same lines since your Mg doesn't appear to be above the Ca value I doubt an Mg toxicity is causing the curling (same symptom as Ca deficiency). Mg deficiency is also out since that would affect old growth only.

This leaves very few possibilities in terms of deficiencies/toxicities. Nitrogen deficiency can cause curling of new growth, but if your nitrates are high and other plants aren't showing signs and the old growth on the hygros isn't deteriorating then it isn't nitrogen. Boron can cause curling, but growing tips die and sprout lots of buds which also die, then the plant shatters like glass at a touch, so that isn't it either. Sulfur and iron deficiency both show up in new leaves and make new leaves look pale, but I haven't read or seen any plants that curl when deficient in these nutrients.

So perhaps the hygro's weird growth is something to do with that plant in particular. Are any of the other plants in your tank showing warped new leaves or deteriorating older leaves? If not then the problem is likely not something that can be solved by nutrient management. Probably something genetic with that one plant.

 

[Italionstallion888]

Some of the leaves (closer to the surface) on my giant hygro are folding over. Other than that, red rubin sword is reaching up and out, anubias all look normal, stargrass is fine. Could it just take longer for it to acclimate? This hygro was stated as blue hygro, it was a darker morw broad lead than it is now. Doesn't even look the same.

 

[Zapins]

If possible take a few more photos of the folding over leaves as close to them as you can get while still being in focus, it would be nice to double check.

I've never heard of blue hygro before. Looks like a normal hygrophila corymbosa to me.

 

[Zapins]

You know, as I was trying to sleep, this post kept bugging me. I kept thinking about the symptoms of the plants in your picture and the possibility of sulfur deficiency. So I did a bit more reading on sulfur deficiency. It is not a common deficiency on the forums that I've seen, but it is fairly common in terrestrial plants so the symptoms are quite well known.

Anyway, it turns out that sulfur deficiency can cause new growth to deform depending on the species. There is chlorosis (yellowing), but not usually necrosis (death of tissue) like with many of the other deficiencies. So your plants match on the curling and on the uniform yellowing. Yellowing starts in the newest leaves and spreads to older leaves with time which also appears to be happening to your plants. This is because sulfur is variably mobile within the plant, so the plant can remove some sulfur from older tissue given enough time.

I don't know if this link will work for you but I found an interesting bit of info on page 198 and 199.

Handbook of Plant Nutrition edited by Allen V. Barker, David J. Pilbeam
http://books.google.com/books?id=5k...=onepage&q=sulfur deficiency symptoms&f=false
​

If you can't view the above link I have summarized two important points from the book:

In general, a high nitrogen supply promotes the expression of sulfur deficiency symptoms and vice versa.

Also,

...leaves which are not fully expanded produce spoon-like deformations when struck by sulfur deficiency. The reason for this is a reduced cell growth rate in the chlorotic areas along the edge of the leaves, while normal cell growth continues in the green areas along the veins
....
The grade of deformation is stronger the less expanded the leaf is when the plant is struck by sulfur deficiency.

I looked back at your nutrients and I see that you are using large amounts of RO water to reduce the nitrates which is likely limiting your S supply (the only source appears to be from your tap water), also the ferts you are dosing - KH2PO4, KNO3, and CSM+B - do not have a lot of sulfur in them (if any). So unless you are dosing K2SO4 (potassium sulfate) without mentioning it above, then I think you might be seeing a sulfur deficiency.

Can you add some K2SO4 to your tank? MgSO4 would also work, but I think it is better to add the K2SO4 if you have it around and please update this thread with pictures after you dose. It would be great to get confirmation of sulfur deficiency.