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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #261 ·
Filled back up with water and all the fish and inverts are behaving normally. The torpedo barbs are begging for food. The Pelvicachromis are swimming, hiding, maintaining territories and pecking at the substrate. The amanos stopped going nuts and then landed on a rock with GDA and other similar places. There are a few that aren't foreging which has me concerned. I'll keep an eye on them. And, of course, the snails are being snails. I also want to keep an eye on my pleco since I treated his "home" with H2O2 today.

I hope I'm not killing everything and not just the BBA. I guess I'll find out soon.
 

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I dont know if you have read my mini-m journal but heres the short of it.

I wanted to take my RCS out of the tank and put in snowballs. Knowing that they would cross breed I took out as many as humanly possible then blasted the whole tank with excel. Not only did it im sure kill any remaining RCS but it also killed ~80% of the plants and made the tank go through a cycle all over again.

Just some food for thought if you decide to go wild with a whole tank excel od.
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #264 ·
All the fish and inverts look good so far. The plants are going nuts with pearling and bubbles from the H2O2. The tank looks like a blizzard of bubbles with some bubbles now coating the top part of my driftwood.

I'm working to come up with an aggressive plan to kill out all of the BBA and BBA spores when I move the tank which it being discussed in the "move" thread I posted earlier.

Looks like I'll be replacing my substrate and filter media. All bacteria will be killed as I sterilize everything. I'll use SafeStart (the predecessor of Bio-Spira) to restart the cycle.
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #265 ·
I wanted to take my RCS out of the tank and put in snowballs. Knowing that they would cross breed I took out as many as humanly possible then blasted the whole tank with excel. Not only did it im sure kill any remaining RCS but it also killed ~80% of the plants and made the tank go through a cycle all over again.
How much did you OD? And which plants were adversely affected? I know some plants do not do well with Excel even at regular dosage.

I think cherries are more sensitive than amanos; however, I once accidentally dosed 4x the water change dosage of excel in my 5g RCS tank. Didn't phase them. It might have helped that I had a lot of plants to utilize the Excel which, in effect, cleaned it out of the water. However, it's not something I would do again. I just got my dosing tables for my different tanks mixed up.
 

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I dosed about a 100x's the recommended amount! :eek5:

Strangely enough the only plants to NOT melt were my Erio's, the MOST sensitive of all the plants in there. My Anubis (nana, and petiete), flame, weeping and peacock moss, and quite abit of my marselia melted.

Before.


After.

How much did you OD? And which plants were adversely affected? I know some plants do not do well with Excel even at regular dosage.

I think cherries are more sensitive than amanos; however, I once accidentally dosed 4x the water change dosage of excel in my 5g RCS tank. Didn't phase them. It might have helped that I had a lot of plants to utilize the Excel which, in effect, cleaned it out of the water. However, it's not something I would do again. I just got my dosing tables for my different tanks mixed up.
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #267 ·
I dosed about a 100x's the recommended amount! :eek5:
:eek5:

Okay, I'll remember to not dose 100x the recommended amount. :hihi:

Honestly, I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm sure you were very happy that your Erios made it! They're pretty expensive and hard to find, aren't they?

I have to ask... how did 100x the recommended amount get inside the tank? Did you do it intentionally or was it an accident?
 

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It really wasnt 100x's but more like 20-30x's. I dosed that amount because I figured that would be about the only way to kill off any RCS that I couldnt find that were left in the tank AND not kill my plants. I did not want the snowballs I was planning to add to xbreed with them. Obviously the outcome I got was much different then I hoped for. There were no RCS left though.:thumbsup:

:eek5:

Okay, I'll remember to not dose 100x the recommended amount. :hihi:

Honestly, I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm sure you were very happy that your Erios made it! They're pretty expensive and hard to find, aren't they?

I have to ask... how did 100x the recommended amount get inside the tank? Did you do it intentionally or was it an accident?
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #269 ·
Yeah, I can see that happening. Just like what I'm doing now. I think I'm pushing my luck a little with treating so much H2O2 so often, topped with Excel treatments. I don't know what the fish, inverts and plants can handle. There's a sense of denial that this will kill anything, but if it does, I'm going to feel horrible.

I'm watching my fish with the increased CO2 dosing, and it seems some are swimming a little higher than normal, but they aren't at the surface, gasping for air. I hope they don't crash once the H2O2 stops creating oxygen bubbles in the tank. That may be what's helping them tolerate the higher CO2.
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #271 ·
Yeah, I'm watching them closely. The tank is directly in front of me as I type. The only time I'm going to leave is to pick up my daughter to watch the Presidential debate with me, and then I'll take her back home. My house is only 15 minutes away so even if I have cranked up the CO2 too high, I won't be gone long enough to not catch any problems before they turn deadly.
 

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I cant wait to have pressurized co2 on my tanks. If you dont mind me asking, how do you feel you got so much bba in your tank even though you have pressurized co2?

Yeah, I'm watching them closely. The tank is directly in front of me as I type. The only time I'm going to leave is to pick up my daughter to watch the Presidential debate with me, and then I'll take her back home. My house is only 15 minutes away so even if I have cranked up the CO2 too high, I won't be gone long enough to not catch any problems before they turn deadly.
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #273 ·
I don't mind you asking at all.

I bought some anubias from the SNS forum that did state it had BBA. I had never had BBA before so I could only go by the reports that it doesn't do well in tanks with steady, high amounts of CO2. So I thought that having not only a pressurized system, but also having a pH controlled (as opposed to using a day/night timer) would be good enough.

I also bleached the anubias before putting it in my tank. The 1:20 ratio for at least 2 minutes as I've always seen recommended. The BBA turned white so I thought it was dead.

At that point, I put the anubias in my tanks, and I've had BBA ever since.

The first sign that it had survived and was spreading was when it started turning black at the leaf edges, and then it spread to my java ferns. I still have a lot of java ferns in other tanks that I refuse to allow back into my 75g (or any other planted tank). That BBA is white so I think it's dead, but I can't put it in the tank since I know java ferns are highly susceptible to it.

The BBA also grew in some flame moss and fissidens that I had in my 75g. The flame moss is clean of it now (in another tank, as well) while the fissidens will probably have to be tossed. I will not put any moss in the 75g until all BBA is dead. Moss is also highly susceptible to BBA.

At that point, I cranked up my CO2 as far as the fish could handle it. Or at least I thought I did. I was still only running 2 of my 4 lamps so the BBA didn't spread much. However, my plants also didn't do well with the lower light levels.

Then Hurricane Ike hit. A full week without power. No CO2. I had to change 90% of the water every day to keep up with the ammonia as a lot of my bacteria died. I also had to clean out both canisters because of the dead bacteria in them.

At that point, I was hopeful that the power outage had served as a black out for the BBA. But when the power came back on, the BBA spread with a vengeance. I started finding small tufts of it throughout the tank. This was much worse than before. It even got on my intake strainers which had never happened before.

I'm trying very hard to get rid of it, but it's not going away very easily. I'm sure part of the problem is the light as I now run all 4 bulbs. My photo period was way too high so I'm sure that contributed. I'm going to reduce it now.

What's really concerning me is that the BBA is actually growing on the substrate! I even found a small dot of it on the front glass! It's all very small still, but it's all over the tank. If I don't work hard to stop it, it will take over my entire tank.

So all I can do is raise the CO2 even more and kill out what I can with H2O2 and Excel. And since I'm going to move back to my house which requires that I break down my entire tank, I'm going to use the opportunity to try to completely eradicate the BBA. But if 1 spore survives and my tank's conditions allows it to grow, I'm back to square one.
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #274 ·
Oh, also meant to say that I just talked to Jud at Caribsea, and he said he'll replace my eco-complete if I send him a receipt. Yea!!

The bad news is he said it will take 3-6 weeks before I get it. Yikes. That's not going to work.

So what I think I'll do is see if my favorite LFS will let me buy it from them so I can use it right away and then do a return on the bags from Caribsea when they arrive. I'm looking at around 9 bags so that's a lot of money!
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #276 ·
Update time! I'm definitely winning the battle against BBA. After treating with H2O2 and Excel for 3 days in a row, I decided to give the tank a break to see how well the treatments have been working. Most, if not all, of the BBA appears to be dead.

That doesn't mean I'm out of the woods, yet, of course. But it does seem the spreading has been stopped. My fish are handling the higher level of CO2 which is great.

I just got some new plants from a wonderful trade, and I received so many that I don't have physical room to plant them all. So I'm going to pull out the crypts that are have the most BBA on them to make space for the new stems. I may also pull out one of my large rocks, as well. The new stems will help with the plant mass issue. Then, when I move my tank, I can change my scape to make room for the new stems with the rocks and crypts back in place.

I also think pulling out the crypts that are worst affected by the BBA will give me a chance to treat them outside of the tank. Those crypts seem to be the plants that are keeping the BBA alive. So this should be a win/win overall. More stems to correct the plant mass issue while the BBA carrier crypts can be treated so get rid of the BBA.

The only causalty to the H2O2 and Excel treatments is one of my nerite snails. It's not dead, but it's not moving very much at all. I've moved it to my 2.5g so I can keep a better eye on it. This way, if it dies, I can easily remove it so it won't fowl up the water. All the other nerites seems to be okay. This leaves me to recommend that H2O2 and Excel treatments are not performed too closely to nerite snails or, better yet, remove the snails until after the filters are turned back on. I think what may have harmed this snail isn't so much the H2O2 or Excel, but that the snail ended up in direct contact with the areas being treated while the filters were off to help the treatment be more concentrated in a specific area. I'd keep the snails out of those areas until the filters can dilute the concentration in those areas.

BTW, I'm getting really nice plant growth even with the treatments. I think the plants actually like it. The only plant suffering are the vals which is to be expected. Everything else has grown during this time!
 

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Pelvicachromis Lover!
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Discussion Starter · #278 ·
I got all the new plants planted. I had to remove a large rock to fit them in, but I'll figure out a way to incorporate then all in my design when I move my tank. For now, I'm just wanting to get the plants healthy enough to handle the move.

I also moved all 10 SAEs into the tank. I'm going to really regret this when I try to catch them for the move, but I'm hoping they'll eat away at the BBA in the tank. With 10 of them, surely, they'll eat some of it.

While doing a water change, I discovered that my XP4 was so badly clogged that hardly any water was coming out! This was odd given that I had just recently cleaned it all out. So I opened it all up and checked around only to discover that the top "fine" pad was filthy! It was so bad, the water literally couldn't pass through it!

When I had to clean my canisters out after the power outage, I didn't have any filter pads for my XP4. So I grabbed some filter floss I had bought in bulk, cut it to fit, and used it. This is a very fine floss. Reminds me of wool. Anyway, that stuff really caught the tiny particles which is what clogged the filter!

I was about to replace it with a real XP4 filter pad when I realized that this other filter floss is really doing one heck of a job getting the tiny particles! So I put in more of the filter floss. I figure since I'll be moving my tank in a few weeks, I can change it out at that time. But, wow, did this floss catch the gunk!

I wish so much I could see my new SAEs in the tank! I'll have to wait until tomorrow. I did leave the lights on long enough to see that several of them had grouped together. My torpedo barbs didn't know what to think! They had huddled together, as well. But my Pelvicachromis 'Malawi' weren't bothered much as the female was enticing the male right beside the SAEs. Seems nothing stops kribs from mating!

The filter that had clogged is the one connected to the injected CO2 so it will be interesting to see how the CO2 is dosed now. I'm surprised it was able to be dosed so well with a clogged filter.
 
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10 SAE's should clean that tank up fast. I know I have 3 SAE's and a CAE and they keep mine spotless. Good luck with your move though and catching them.
 

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10 SAE's should clean that tank up fast. I know I have 3 SAE's and a CAE and they keep mine spotless. Good luck with your move though and catching them.
Please do report back on this. My SAEs seem busy but when I had a decent outbreak of BBA they barely touched it, nary a dent. I have it under control now after a big removal and cleaning of driftwood and all leaves with any BBA, and the SAEs might indeed be helping keep it in check now that's it 99% gone, but they never really helped me get rid of it.
 
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