[Stella Blue]

When i got home from work today, i feed my fish as normal. But to my surprise.... no fish came out to eat? I looked at my drop checker and it was light lime green almost clear I quickly looked at my diffuser..... oh @#$# it was just cranking out the co2!!

I'm using a single stage regulator (boo) and the PIS on the tank was 100. I 'm thinking i just experienced my fist "EOTD" (boo again) I've got about 20 Neons, 12 Rummynose, 2 Puffers and hundreds of Cherry/Mutt shrimp! All the tetras are breathing super hard but not at the surface sucking air yet! I can't find the Puffers? I have no air pump to add oxygen, so i emptied about 5 gallons of water and have the spry bars splashing really good.

Is there any thing else i can do, 50% water change?

 

[JasonG75]

WOW that sucks...

Aim your spraybay to the top and PRAY..maybe a few more water changes.

 

[kevmo911]

What kind of single stage regulator are you using?

 

[Stella Blue]

What kind of single stage regulator are you using?

it's a Smith

The fish seem to be breathing a little slower, i'm really hoping they'll be ok?

 

[tetra73]

What was your working PSI? What sort of diffuser you use?

 

[Stella Blue]

What was your working PSI? What sort of diffuser you use?

working PSI was about 30 with a GLA atomic diffuser.

 

[bsmith]

Sorry to hear about your EOTD. The one good thing though is that you were keeping your co2 levels nice and high which is NOT what a lot of people tend to do. Then they blame every other nutrient on the planet for their lack of growth or growth issues.

The only things you can do when this happens is as was suggested above, get your spray bars churning up as much water as possible, add an air pump and/or change as much water as you can with as cold water as you think your fish can tolerate as colder water contains more dissolved o2.

Then you just need to ask yourself if you want to invest in a quality dual stage regulator so that you never have to worry about this again or just watch your tank pressure like a hawk and change the bottle as soon as you see the pressure drop at all.

 

[HypnoticAquatic]

run your pressure higher say 60 is a good number and dont have it at such high levels in your tank and you will never have this problem again, its really just a rise and decay which increases your bubble rate due to increased pressure on the lower guage. if you read there are several discussions on this an how you can deal with it. i have a single stage i run 20lb till its empty its a smith with a ideal nv an havent had a issue running it dry so its all how you set it up but if your still worried get a dual stage reg.

 

[Bettatail]

are all fish ok now?

 

[bsmith]

run your pressure higher say 60 is a good number and dont have it at such high levels in your tank and you will never have this problem again, its really just a rise and decay which increases your bubble rate due to increased pressure on the lower guage. if you read there are several discussions on this an how you can deal with it. i have a single stage i run 20lb till its empty its a smith with a ideal nv an havent had a issue running it dry so its all how you set it up but if your still worried get a dual stage reg.

Again, this has nothing to do with the working pressure that you have your regulator set at, it has to do with your bubble rate and the fact that you are not running that high of co2 concentration in your tank/s. Not saying you are doing anything wrong at all so don't take it the wrong way please.

Its just that is you are running a high concentration of co2 and you get even a small rise in BC this could set the stage for an entire tank gassing.

 

[HypnoticAquatic]

it does have a major factor with the working pressure due to the corrilation from the increase in working pressure, on one of my previous post about this same issue i showed how a lower working pressure has a much much higher % increase of co2 due to the rise /decay than one with a much higher working pressure like 60psi with just a 5psi increse you can have a increase of over 25% on a lower psi like 25-30psi than a psi set at 60psi which had only a 5-10%increase. with that said one of the other major factors is not the bubble rate but the co2 rate in the tank if its as the brim for what the fauna can handle then any increase will finish them off, so useing just those two things you can safely run a co2 in a single stage and empty the tank but it is a very good idea to keep a eye on it when it does get low so you can adjust it if need be.

 

[HypnoticAquatic]

if you also do the working pressure and say it goes up 10 psi your % go up even higher its simple math and ive seen it on low psi setting go up almost 100% so that could be fatal even with a lower co2 level in the tank,
i didnt take anything you said the wrong way i enjoy talking about this stuff.. ps change that avatar cause everytime i see it i want one of those L183 is that one you breed?

 

[bsmith]

it does have a major factor with the working pressure due to the corrilation from the increase in working pressure, on one of my previous post about this same issue i showed how a lower working pressure has a much much higher % increase of co2 due to the rise /decay than one with a much higher working pressure like 60psi with just a 5psi increse you can have a increase of over 25% on a lower psi like 25-30psi than a psi set at 60psi which had only a 5-10%increase. with that said one of the other major factors is not the bubble rate but the co2 rate in the tank if its as the brim for what the fauna can handle then any increase will finish them off, so useing just those two things you can safely run a co2 in a single stage and empty the tank but it is a very good idea to keep a eye on it when it does get low so you can adjust it if need be.

if you also do the working pressure and say it goes up 10 psi your % go up even higher its simple math and ive seen it on low psi setting go up almost 100% so that could be fatal even with a lower co2 level in the tank,
i didnt take anything you said the wrong way i enjoy talking about this stuff.. ps change that avatar cause everytime i see it i want one of those L183 is that one you breed?

I just dont think that the working pressure has anything to do with it. When the bottle empties the pressure raises regardless and common sense would dictate that if you have a higher working pressure that the raise in the bubble rate would go up even higher. Experiments need to be done for sure.

Yes, I do breed L183 starlight bristlenose plecos. I have a link to a journal that I keep on the breeding tank/setup in my sig.

 

[Hoppy]

There was no need for panic. The fish were not clustered at the top of the tank, so they were still able to tolerate even the high level of CO2 that you had. As soon as you shut off the CO2 that level began dropping, and within a couple of hours it would be low enough to be no problem at all. Changing water isn't necessary, letting the CO2 outgas from the water was necessary, but you did that.

Cheap regulators let lots of people, who otherwise couldn't afford it, use pressurized CO2. But, they need to learn to live with the quirks of those cheap regulators. One of the things to learn is to check the CO2 system every day, looking at the inlet pressure to see if it is dropping. Once it drops below about 500 psi, either adjust the output pressure a few times during the day, or just refill the CO2 bottle. And, of course, checking the bubble rate every day is a good idea too.

 

[HypnoticAquatic]

i dont see how you dont see the effects when your co2 output can double with a lower working pressure vs a higher its all %'s, lets give another example and with this time saying your output increases 10psi well just use that number overall even though it would go more on a lower psi an less on a higher but for show purposes well keep it a steady #, now start off with 10psi working pressure and then with rise/decay would push that 10psi to 20psi thus increased your psi by 100%, 30psi goes to 40 with a 33.3% increase and 50psi to 60 would only be a 20% increase thus showing the higher psi the less % of increase its pretty basic math an common sense, if you would like to test this yourself id say go for it just record what your psi increases an you can see a corrilation of how much co2 increase you have experianced.

 

[Stella Blue]

Thanks for all the replies.......

The fish all survived the night and seem to be happy today! I'm a little bit confused on my working pressure now? I've always had it set at about 28-30 psi, and when it seemed to be dumping this gage never changed but the bubble rate was rocking!! Hopefully by Xmas I'll be able to get a dual stage and never have to worry about this again. In the mean time, I'll keep a closer eye on the tank.... 8 weeks max!!

 

[bsmith]

i dont see how you dont see the effects when your co2 output can double with a lower working pressure vs a higher its all %'s, lets give another example and with this time saying your output increases 10psi well just use that number overall even though it would go more on a lower psi an less on a higher but for show purposes well keep it a steady #, now start off with 10psi working pressure and then with rise/decay would push that 10psi to 20psi thus increased your psi by 100%, 30psi goes to 40 with a 33.3% increase and 50psi to 60 would only be a 20% increase thus showing the higher psi the less % of increase its pretty basic math an common sense, if you would like to test this yourself id say go for it just record what your psi increases an you can see a corrilation of how much co2 increase you have experianced.

What leads you to the conclusion that when the bottle pressure drops your working pressure increases by a certain %? Unfortunately I cannot test this theory as I only have DSR's and have only had DSR's from the start.

 

[Hoppy]

i dont see how you dont see the effects when your co2 output can double with a lower working pressure vs a higher its all %'s, lets give another example and with this time saying your output increases 10psi well just use that number overall even though it would go more on a lower psi an less on a higher but for show purposes well keep it a steady #, now start off with 10psi working pressure and then with rise/decay would push that 10psi to 20psi thus increased your psi by 100%, 30psi goes to 40 with a 33.3% increase and 50psi to 60 would only be a 20% increase thus showing the higher psi the less % of increase its pretty basic math an common sense, if you would like to test this yourself id say go for it just record what your psi increases an you can see a corrilation of how much co2 increase you have experianced.

Just repeat this experiment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M08hPs-J3SM with different outlet pressures. This was done by shutting the CO2 tank valve with the regulator set at a specific outlet pressure, which looks like 70 psi, and some CO2 flowing through the needle valve. You can see the outlet pressure rising as the inlet pressure drops, until the inlet pressure equals the outlet pressure. It is a Milwaukee regulator being shown, so one can't be sure that other regulators do the same thing, unless they are tested. In any case, it is an easy thing to avoid if you check on the CO2 system every day.

 

[HypnoticAquatic]

the % in increase is due to rise an decay if you watch a single stage reg it happends as for how much and how fast depends on your flow/size of co2 tank. the increase % is just a basic math equasion like u have one apple now u have two apples you have increased your apples by 100%=2apples.
to hoppy i did notice my reg from smith reg from gla did this but i have a 20lb tank so i noticed it an set my psi higher an readjusted my bubble rate and havent had a problem yet, it only jumped 5psi or so from the when i noticed and didnt see a jump when i reset it at a higher psi but i will keep a eye out just incase for one more time just as a precaution..

 

[bsmith]

Well your explination is very easy to follow but there is no basis to it other then what seems to be your own personal experience.