Closed Loop Drilled System

1205 Views 5 Replies 2 Participants Last post by gsd78, Jan 13, 2008

HaWk16

Discussion Starter · Jan 12, 2008

Im currently requesting a quote from Concept Aquariums Systems Inc. and from what ive read, they can create bulkheads for a closed loop system so ive decided to run my xp4s off a closed loop system along with 2 independent sump returns to eliminate all equipment from the tank. (no powerheads for water movement is a big one) Here is a sketch of what i hope will work.

From the first image, you can see the 2 corner overflows both containing a 2" drain hole and a 1" return hole. You can also see the lowered intake/return (the one with the diagonal stipes is unknown whether it should be an intake or a return) and the 2 returns on the left and right side. The second image is an above view showing the 5 returns (3 for the xp4s and 2 for the sump (would this help to improve overal flow within the tank?) and the 3 or 4 intakes (dont know yet). So my questions are should i have 3 returns on the back wall or 2 returns and 1 intake? (both will be positioned low because the background of the tank is going to 3-4 inches away from the back of the tank to allow for backlighting so the only way it will be higher is if i can find a way to hide the piping.) Secondly, should i use 3 or 4 intakes on the bottom of the tank? Thirdly, which way i should i position the returns? (flow wise, like which direction should the returns be flowing in). And lastly, would this all work with 2 xp4s and a 50-70 gallon sump?

Thanks in advance

~HaWk16

EDIT: Sry for the Pic, fixing it now!

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gsd78

· #2 · Jan 12, 2008

What are the dimensions of the tank going to be?

Here's a link to a drain/return flow calculator that will be helpful in your planning: http://www.aquariumpros.ca/modules.php?name=Overflow_Drain_Calculator.

First problem that I see is that your returns from your sump will utilize the holes in the overflows (if you put 2 holes in each overflow as you have drawn). You could run only one drain hole in each overflow and have the return holes in the main body of the tank. You'll need to use the link above to size your drains and choose your pump. This plus the number of XP4's your running will help determine how many return bulkheads you'll need. The XP4's only flow 450gph and thats probably at zero head and no media in the filter. Factor in those two and the flow would be significantly less. I'd personally only run 1 return to get decent flow out of them and I'd use Loc-line on each to be able to direct the flow to where you need it.

You probably are already aware, but remember that a 2" bulkhead does not fit into a 2" hole. I'd hate for you to spec out a "2 inch drain hole" and then not have a bulkhead that will fit it. Here's a nice chart for bulkhead hole sizing: http://www.savko.com/portal/bulkhead.asp. This is for the sch 80 Savko bulkheads. Other manufacturers may spec out slightly different hole sizes. I'd just buy the bulkheads from the tank manufacturer and let them size the holes accordingly.

Sounds like your taking the time to really plan this setup out ahead of time which will pay off for you in the end. Have fun with it and be sure to post up a nice photo journal when you setup the system.

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HaWk16

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 13, 2008

gsd78 said:
What are the dimensions of the tank going to be?

Here's a link to a drain/return flow calculator that will be helpful in your planning: http://www.aquariumpros.ca/modules.php?name=Overflow_Drain_Calculator.

First problem that I see is that your returns from your sump will utilize the holes in the overflows (if you put 2 holes in each overflow as you have drawn). You could run only one drain hole in each overflow and have the return holes in the main body of the tank. You'll need to use the link above to size your drains and choose your pump. This plus the number of XP4's your running will help determine how many return bulkheads you'll need. The XP4's only flow 450gph and thats probably at zero head and no media in the filter. Factor in those two and the flow would be significantly less. I'd personally only run 1 return to get decent flow out of them and I'd use Loc-line on each to be able to direct the flow to where you need it.

You probably are already aware, but remember that a 2" bulkhead does not fit into a 2" hole. I'd hate for you to spec out a "2 inch drain hole" and then not have a bulkhead that will fit it. Here's a nice chart for bulkhead hole sizing: http://www.savko.com/portal/bulkhead.asp. This is for the sch 80 Savko bulkheads. Other manufacturers may spec out slightly different hole sizes. I'd just buy the bulkheads from the tank manufacturer and let them size the holes accordingly.

Sounds like your taking the time to really plan this setup out ahead of time which will pay off for you in the end. Have fun with it and be sure to post up a nice photo journal when you setup the system.

The tank is going to be 72"L X 30"W X 24-30"H (havent fully figured out height yet)

for the first problem, if i create multiple smaller holes and power them with a few powerful pumps couldnt the system from the sump work to support multiple returns? One thing it says on the custom tank quote request sheet is that for the overflow, it asks for the bulkhead size, not the hole size. So does a 2" bulkhead fit a 2" PVC pipe? And if so, i can have a 2.5" drain bulkhead which could improve flow dramaticly which allows for a faster return which could be divided around the tank?

my main goal is just to create a equipment free (as in filter pipes and such other then the overflow pipes) tank and not have to worry about proper flow throught the tank and such and because the background is 3-4" away from the back of the tank for backlighting, having returns higher up may not be an option unless there is a way i can disguise them with the background? (the background is just going to be a textured white)

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gsd78

· #4 · Jan 13, 2008

Yes, 2" pvc pipe fits a 2" bulkhead. Also, there is no such thing as a 2.5" bulkhead. They go in 1" increments for sizes above 2".

I guess what you first need to determine is how much flow you want in the tank. Then size your overflows accordingly and choose the bulkhead size for your drains. You need to keep in mind that your drain rate is a function of the size of the drain bulkheads as well as the linear length of the overflows and size of the teeth. Use the link to the drain calculator I provided above to help. Once you have that down you can choose your pump based on how many gph your tank will drain and the head the pump will see. Once you know that it will better hjelp you determine how many returns you'll need or want to run.

I am going through the same troubles in setting up my 240g. Planning the filtration/plumbing setup has been the hardest part of the project. I'll know within a month if it all works out once I finally get water in the system. I will be running a 100gal sump on my setup. Ultimately I decided to go with two 1.5" bulkheads as drains and two 1" bulkheads as returns. With this setup, I should drain about 2300gph. Because of this I chose a Sequence Reeflo Barracude pump which will deliver right around 2300gph at the roughly 15ft head I'll be running (sump will be in the basement). From the sump I am running a 1.5" flex pvc line to the tank that will be split into two 1" lines feeding the 1" bulkheads. Each of these 1" lines from the bulkheads will again be split and each feed a 5/8" adjustable socket nozzle (total of 4 nozzles) that I mounted in the front face of my overflow. I should get a about 500gph out of each nozzle which I'm hoping will be enough flow throughout my tank. It is 48"x48"x25.5" tall and I'll be running a 100gal sump. As you mentioned, I also do not want to have to run any powerheads for additional circulation. I am trying to have an equipment free tank as well.

I'd give the tank manufacturer a call and dicuss your setup with them. They can probably help you work everything out.

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HaWk16

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 13, 2008

gsd78 said:
Yes, 2" pvc pipe fits a 2" bulkhead. Also, there is no such thing as a 2.5" bulkhead. They go in 1" increments for sizes above 2".

I guess what you first need to determine is how much flow you want in the tank. Then size your overflows accordingly and choose the bulkhead size for your drains. You need to keep in mind that your drain rate is a function of the size of the drain bulkheads as well as the linear length of the overflows and size of the teeth. Use the link to the drain calculator I provided above to help. Once you have that down you can choose your pump based on how many gph your tank will drain and the head the pump will see. Once you know that it will better hjelp you determine how many returns you'll need or want to run.

I am going through the same troubles in setting up my 240g. Planning the filtration/plumbing setup has been the hardest part of the project. I'll know within a month if it all works out once I finally get water in the system. I will be running a 100gal sump on my setup. Ultimately I decided to go with two 1.5" bulkheads as drains and two 1" bulkheads as returns. With this setup, I should drain about 2300gph. Because of this I chose a Sequence Reeflo Barracude pump which will deliver right around 2300gph at the roughly 15ft head I'll be running (sump will be in the basement). From the sump I am running a 1.5" flex pvc line to the tank that will be split into two 1" lines feeding the 1" bulkheads. Each of these 1" lines from the bulkheads will again be split and each feed a 5/8" adjustable socket nozzle (total of 4 nozzles) that I mounted in the front face of my overflow. I should get a about 500gph out of each nozzle which I'm hoping will be enough flow throughout my tank. It is 48"x48"x25.5" tall and I'll be running a 100gal sump. As you mentioned, I also do not want to have to run any powerheads for additional circulation. I am trying to have an equipment free tank as well.

I'd give the tank manufacturer a call and dicuss your setup with them. They can probably help you work everything out.

Sry, that was a 3" bulkhead, my bad :redface:

Okay, now i fully understand how that works. My guess is that they would appropriatly(sp?) size the overflows to have proper flow but ill add addition notes and discuss all of this.

After looking the the forums and finding out about the Pentair Aquactics Lifeguard system, im really thinking about going with a parallel system with these modules instead of a canister, giving the flow for maybe a few more returns and better filtration, leaving the sump to just feed the overflow returns.

Anyways, i really appreciate your help on all of this and now i have a better understanding on what i want and what i will need to get this set up

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gsd78

· #6 · Jan 13, 2008

The Pentair Lifegards are nice units. I have 1 mechanical, 2 chemical, and 1 UV modules, all triples. What I'm considering is running a closed loop on my sump with them. I'd drill the sump for drain and return bulkheads and just filter the water thats in the sump. I'd have to add a second pump to my system, but I think it would work out good. I think I'd restrict flow on my main return pump if I ran them off of it.

Also, a 3" return bulkheads would be overkill. Each bulkhead would need about an 86" long overflow to drain at its max rate. I'd go with either 1.5" or 2". Should be able to get plenty of flow out of either.

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