[apaniagua]

So in my country I've only been able to find caridinas (bolt, king kong, mosura, wine red and pandas). A guy breeds them a few hours away from home. I've been wanting to add at least 2 or 3 to my 5 gallon which has gravel and no plants...

I wanna make a Walstad 10 gallon tank but I've not been able yet. I wanted to ask around and see if these caridinas would survive in my tank which keeps temps at 85F on the top (a bit cooler on the bottom). I found online that bolts can handle 85F (?) But not the rest. What do you guys think?

 

[Blue Ridge Reef]

I would think that is way, way too hot. Also fancy bees are sensitive to high organics and wouldn't seem a good choice for a Walstad. If you can find a breeder of Neos or tangerine tigers they are much more sturdy but I'd still think would have a tough go in such a warm environment.

 

[apaniagua]

I would think that is way, way too hot. Also fancy bees are sensitive to high organics and wouldn't seem a good choice for a Walstad. If you can find a breeder of Neos or tangerine tigers they are much more sturdy but I'd still think would have a tough go in such a warm environment.

Sadly I cannot keep water temperature lower than that...that's normal ambient temp in the living room, and the only way would be with an AC but we don't have 24/7 AC.

Also, I can't seem to find a breeder of Neos...found this guy selling Caridinas by chance. Only one I've ever heard of.

Well! After visiting like 7 places, one guy gave me the contact of another and he breeds neocaridina davidi. Right now he only has red cherry shrimps. I'll visit to see if I can buy him a few.

 

[Blue Ridge Reef]

A fan will go a long way to keeping the water cool. Also move any light a little farther from the water if applicable.

 

[Zoidburg]

You may have difficulty with Neos as well... since 76-78° F is considered too hot. Not to say they can't survive but you are more likely to run into issues with higher temps. There's less oxygen in the water at higher temps and higher chance of bacterial infections. Some people believe it also shortens their lifespan.

It sounds like you may have a difficult road ahead if you are interested in keeping shrimp.

 

[Crazyjayb]

Sulawesi shrimp, if you can find any seem to be the only shrimp that can survive in that hot of a temp

 

[apaniagua]

Would plants cool the water down? Normally it is 85F. A fan and moving it a bit farther from window may help.

 

[Blue Ridge Reef]

Plants have no measurable effect on temperature.

 

[apaniagua]

Then I'm screwed. Basically, a water cooler is made with 2 pc fans, or whatever amount you want. That may decrease temps by 2-4 celsius but increase evaporation. And 2-4 degrees isn't enough. 85-88F or 29-31C is too high. Decreasing 30c to 26c is just 78.8F, still higher than the recommended 77F.

 

[Blue Ridge Reef]

Don't be bummed, they're just not right for the setup you've got. Even 77 is warm for Neos or Caridina, if that is meant to be a lower end. They are simply temperate ectotherms, and not adapted to long warm periods. Sulawasi (sp?) shrimp are gorgeous warm water shrimp, but I have no experience with them. Might be something to look into, though I doubt many crustaceans fit the unfiltered tank bill long-term. You want things that will thrive in your environment, not merely survive for a while. Plenty of people keep Neos in Waldstads and bowls. I doubt any of them have the same colony even 3 years later, and these things eat "muck." They require clean, well-oxygenated moving water to make more shrimp, before we even get into GH and diet and so forth. Look into other inhabitants.

 

[en7jos]

Warmer temp's may not be ideal, but they are certainly not as big a roadblock to keeping neocaradina as you might think, as the following photo's hopefully prove:

Both tanks are 11 litres water volume, cooled (slightly!) by a small fan that hangs on the back of each tank. The fans are connected to a temp controller so they only run when the temp goes above 27C (80F). Here in Singapore, my room temp is 27C (80F) minimum during day with air-con running, up to 29-30C (86-86F) at night when air-con is turned off. Without fans, water temp's would sit at about 28-29C (82-84F). Fan controller is set to keep tanks at 27C (80F) max.

(Note: I work in Celsius - hopefully my C>F conversions are correct!)

The left tank is Sunkist orange neos and is currently full of newborn shrimplets, as per two lower photos. Right tank has yellow goldenback neo's and lots of 1-2 week old juveniles. It **is** possible to keep happy, healthy, breeding shrimp in higher than the standard-quoted temp ranges. It might however be more tricky, and the tank balance far more delicate, than in a cooler tank (but I've never kept shrimp in a cooler country, so not sure). Breeding might be better in lower temps, but my shrimp are now breeding at my "too high" temps. I've read that higher temps cause shrimp to grow faster, and I have a feeling that faster and more regular molting can be an issue (had a fair few shrimp showing water ring of death in failed molts when I was starting out with these tanks). But if you get everything else right, then slightly higher temps (say up to 27C / 80F) are possible.

Most shrimp suppliers here in SG keep shrimp at about 27C (80F) lightly air-conditioned room temps. I've not heard of anyone using a chiller for neo, but most will use one for caridina to get the temp down to around 25C. Chatting to one of the shrimp 'experts' here, he said that today's neo have come a long way from the neo's that had been bred at the time that all the shrimp keeping rules were written. Current lines are far hardier than they were even a few years back, and can survive / thrive in more extreme conditions (esp. higher temp's) than they could. This was his opinion, and it seems to ring true for shrimp keeping here in balmy Singapore.

I'd suggest finding a local breeder and seeing what temp he keeps his shrimp at in your climate. It will be harder work at higher temps, you'll need a fan to bring the temp down a bit (and then be prepared for frequent topping up of evaporate!). I'm currently trialing Sochting oxidators in my tanks because H2O2 seems to have many benefits for shrimp tanks (one being increasing oxygen levels, which might be reason enough to use one in warmer tanks!).

But it is possible! :wink2:

 

[apaniagua]

Thanks for your post. It works as an encouragement. I'll ask the only 2 breeders I've found and see what they do with their temps. I'm pretty sure one of them runs his AC the whole day, but he works from home so he can justify it.

 

[Blue Ridge Reef]

Interesting, I'm surprised to see babies! I had such awful luck trying to keep them in an 82 tank I had rams in. It was a long-established 125 gallon planted and it couldn't have just been predation. But when I traded the pair of rams and dropped the temps, I was immediately able to get a colony going. Perhaps the lines I've purchased over the years are more cold hardy than warm and yours are vice versa? My culls have overwintered in my unheated pond that gets quite cool but fail to thrive when kept at the temps yours are. Go figure?

 

[apaniagua]

Interesting, I'm surprised to see babies! I had such awful luck trying to keep them in an 82 tank I had rams in. It was a long-established 125 gallon planted and it couldn't have just been predation. But when I traded the pair of rams and dropped the temps, I was immediately able to get a colony going. Perhaps the lines I've purchased over the years are more cold hardy than warm and yours are vice versa? My culls have overwintered in my unheated pond that gets quite cool but fail to thrive when kept at the temps yours are. Go figure?

May be adaptation over time and generations?

 

[en7jos]

My culls have overwintered in my unheated pond that gets quite cool but fail to thrive when kept at the temps yours are. Go figure?

Wow, that's cold! :surprise:

I think shrimp and humans aren't too dissimilar in this respect. You can move yourself to a different climate and after a few years will learn to tolerate the different temperature. But only kids born into the climate will really be able to "thrive" there. (Luckily for humans, reproduction doesn't seem to be hindered by an unfamiliar climate!!!). After 11+ years in the heat and humidity of Asia, the Englishman in me still feels it necessary to comment daily about it being hot today, despite it being pretty much the same as every other day in this season-less sauna we now call home. On the other hand, I don't think I can ever recall my kids even mentioning that they felt warm, even when soaked through in sweat. But take them into a 25C air-con shopping mall and they instantly develop frostbite!

I think many of the "rule books" (i.e. online posts, Youtube videos, etc) are now out of date when it comes to a some/many/all current shrimp lines. A bit like asking your granddad what phone you should buy. For instance...

Found a new aquarium store here that sells shrimp. All types - crystals, cherries, galaxies, pintos, tigers, cray fish, chocolate, etc, etc. All kept in exactly the same dechlorinated tap water (2KH & 4GH) at about 250 TDS. I recently bought goldenbacks and sunkist neo's from there and they are doing great (the ones now having lots of babies!). So this week I have restocked my CRS tank from the same shop. I'm working on the basis that those that have survived in the shop will hopefully be the hardiest of the hardy. Fingers crossed!

 

[apaniagua]

Well, dunno if what you say would be true everywhere else, but apparently here the brewery has kept the RCS at 28-29C and they have not changed behavior or anything. He said some even bred. So, I think I'll try to reduce the water temp, and then get some of those RCS.

 

[en7jos]

RCS would seem a good choice. Amanos are maybe another option. Not so colourful as the neo's but great characters to have in your tank, much more useful in terms of cleaning up and eating algae, and they are pretty robust.

Just remember that the one thing shrimp hate most is change. If you can keep everything stable (ph, GH, KH, TDS, temp, etc, etc.) then you're in with a chance of success, even if the stable values aren't quite within the optimum range.

Good luck!