[danepatrick]

specs are:
38 gallon with 192 watts. 96 for 1 hour, then 192 for 5, then 96, for 1 for a total of 8 hours a day.
i dose dry ferts 3x weekly: 1/4 tsp kno3, 1/16 tsp K2SO4, 1/8 tsp of KH2PO4.
for traces 3x weekly: 5ml TPN, and 3ml flourish iron.
i do a 50% WC once a week.
at the end of the week, i use an API test kit to test params and they are as followed:
NO3 = between 10-20ppm. the orange was in between the two colors.
PO4 = between 2-5ppm. the blue was in between the two colors. if i had to guess, i'd say 3-4.
pH = 6.4ppm.
kH = 7 degrees.

the PO4 out of the tap is at 1ppm.

i don't get it. i can't keep the hard green spot algae away. it's not green dust algae. the hard kind that only nerite snails eat. unfortunately i can't keep them as my pH is too low.

there are a lot more intelligent people out there than i, so someone PLEASE help me.

 

[rich]

I have the same issue and I'm good about water changes.. I think it's due to a really opportunistic algae in my tap water, too much light and not enough CO2. I have 65W + DIY CO2 on my 20 Gallon tank, and I'm growing 2 stems and low light plants like java fern and water sprite. If I let the water sprite become a floating salad, the GS stops.. the day after I remove the handfuls of water sprite from the top, the GS asserts itself again. I'd like to hear what the veterans have to say on this too -perhaps it's just some kind of negligence on my part.

-Rich

 

[Naja002]

What's Your C02 Setup?

With that much light--You are driving everything very hard. The math on the lighting only adds up to 7hrs--so is it 7hrs or 8hrs?

Your dosing regime looks like the EI for a 20-40g tank. 38g with that much light is close enough to 40g that you may want to run with the:

Tank's (2)
40~60gal
50%H20 change-weekly
+/-1/2Tsp KN03 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/-10ml Trace 3x a week
+/-2-4ml Fe/Iron 3x a week

Best bet---Turn down the lighting. Otherwise You have a limiting nutrient: Probably C02.

Read Tom Barr's Comments in this Thread

Too much light--or not enough C02--Your Choice.

Why not run the 96w with a noonday burst for an hr or 2. Just running the 96w alone would be Your best bet though......

HTH

 

[danepatrick]

sorry for putting 8hrs. i meant to put 7. you're right. i run it for 7. naja, i know you're just trying to help, but it's not GDA. i've had it before and now have that under control. i'm sure you know the difference between GDA and GSA. i have GSA. the hard round kind. if anyone needs, i'll post pics tonight so we can properly identify what i'm talking about even though i'm 100% sure of what it is.

i run the co2 for 9 hours a day. it comes on an hour before the first 96watt light, and then stays on for an hour after it finishes with the single 96watt again. the bubbles rate is so high that i cannot count. plants pearl like crazy right before the lights go out. i end up with surface film due to the high concentrations.

as far as dosing goes, i've altered it enough to where i get great growth, color, and no GDA. so, by still having GSA, i've upped the PO4 and nothing. it still stays around. i mean.. would putting a 1/4tsp PO4 really hurt the tank?

again, what i have and what is in that thread are different algae.

 

[Naja002]

Apologies, trying to keep these acronyms separated is a headache sometimes.

I think You are in a realm that I don't really understand Yet. GSA is often times from a P limitation. Sounds like You have enough P, but the GSA is still there. So, the part I don't understand at this point is: Can GSA appear if P Uptake is limited? The P is still in the water, but if the uptake is limited by--say K--will that allow the GSA to appear-> I have no idea! :tongue: But my first guess would be: Yes. Maybe someone will come along and answer that question.......:help:

You have a ton of light, the C02 is cranked up and the plants pearl up a storm. That leaves a fert imbalance--in Theory anyway. You have plenty of N and P at the end of the week--so that leaves K and micros. You should have enough K.

Problem is: Your lighting is so high--Your margin of error is really small. Its all about "Balance" through Stability. At some point the GSA is taking advantage of a "Drop" or fluctuation in the Stability--ie, Lack of True stability.

Are Your numbers from the end of the week before or after Your WC?

 

[Naja002]

I have the same issue and I'm good about water changes.. I think it's due to a really opportunistic algae in my tap water, too much light and not enough CO2. I have 65W + DIY CO2 on my 20 Gallon tank, and I'm growing 2 stems and low light plants like java fern and water sprite. If I let the water sprite become a floating salad, the GS stops.. the day after I remove the handfuls of water sprite from the top, the GS asserts itself again. I'd like to hear what the veterans have to say on this too -perhaps it's just some kind of negligence on my part.

-Rich

Without more information, my guess is this: The water sprite is shading the rest of the tank preventing the other plants from using up the P--so a sufficient amount stays in the water. You remove the WS and now the other plants are not adapted to that much light--so they cannot function on that level--Yet they are thrown into high gear. The algae is just taking advantage of the plants inability to adapt to the "New" Environment/Situation. That's what algae does: Takes advantage of situations where the plants cannot adapt as quickly or there are deficiencies (same thing actually).

Read this thread by TB and it will help You understand the overall picture of what goes on and why algae shows up to begin with:


http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/2528-post-co2-why-we-can-get-algae-times-even-ei.html


HTH

 

[danepatrick]

Apologies, trying to keep these acronyms separated is a headache sometimes.

I think You are in a realm that I don't really understand Yet. GSA is often times from a P limitation. Sounds like You have enough P, but the GSA is still there. So, the part I don't understand at this point is: Can GSA appear if P Uptake is limited? The P is still in the water, but if the uptake is limited by--say K--will that allow the GSA to appear-> I have no idea! :tongue: But my first guess would be: Yes. Maybe someone will come along and answer that question.......:help:

You have a ton of light, the C02 is cranked up and the plants pearl up a storm. That leaves a fert imbalance--in Theory anyway. You have plenty of N and P at the end of the week--so that leaves K and micros. You should have enough K.

Problem is: Your lighting is so high--Your margin of error is really small. Its all about "Balance" through Stability. At some point the GSA is taking advantage of a "Drop" or fluctuation in the Stability--ie, Lack of True stability.

Are Your numbers from the end of the week before or after Your WC?

the numbers are from the end of the week before my WC.
i'm not sure if there is a lack of trace. not sure how to test for K. there is K in the KNO3 that i dose, and K in the KH2PO4. THEN, i also dose K2SO4. that's three sources of K. too much maybe? could it be there is too much K?

 

[Green Leaf Aquariums]

Sounds like you have a HIGH light set up. Like driving a formula 1 car with top
fuel. Ive never been that good at high light set ups. 5+ watts per gallon will do that.

 

[cbennett]

wow you have waaay too much light. Try just 96 watts (2.5 wpg) for 8-10 hours a day with the same dosing and I think you'll find things calm down. I think you have so much light right now that it's nearly impossible for the dosing to keep up. At 2.5 wpg you should be able to grow most anything, you really don't need that much.

 

[danepatrick]

i had only 96 watts on it for a LONG time and i am just not satisfied with the growth, so i bumped it up. it's not that i'm having algae problems left and right guys. i think you're misunderstanding me. this one particular kind of algae is the only problem my tank faces. i had plants that should get red, and didn't. now my r. wallichi, l. repens, l. arcuata, and r. rotundfolia is all getting bright red as far as 6" from the surface!! that's such an improvement. i'm diligent about WC's and dosing. i don't over feed. i don't mean to sound frustrated, but what i'm looking for is advice on balancing nutrients. i don't think my light is "too high". amano uses 4 and 5 watts per gallon on all of his tanks. so do many other people.

 

[Naja002]

Here's what Wolfenxxx had to say:

The plants are your test kit.

BBA and green spot says poor P and C02.

Dosing NPK and trace rules out a dificiency in that area, so what is left? light and C02. and C02 is usually the hardest nutrient to get right.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/46271-please-help-me-pinpoint-my-growth.html#post412001

Different thread, different situation--but the same things apply.

the numbers are from the end of the week before my WC.

Then it appears that You have enough nutrients in the water column by the end of the week. But maybe something is limiting. I really don't know. And You have to factor in the "Quality" of hobbiest level test kits. You can try dosing more overall to see if that helps, But I am really having a hard time getting past the light. Its just a lot of light. If You want that much light for some reason--that's Cool. But if its just "what You been doing"--I'd say: crank it down--easiest solution.

You can always up the ferts to the 40-60g range to see if that helps, Or just increase the K and micros. But I have a feeling that its not going to do the trick--I've definitely been wrong before though!:tongue: But doing so would leave You with light or C02 if it didn't help.

Then You could even try to up your C02 (Do You have fish, etc?)--No Luck?

Then the light needs to come down.

It sounds like You've done and do very well, but that You have boxed Yourself into a position with a really narrow margin of error.

I guess the real question is: Can the lights come down, or do You want to try to sort it out at that lighting level?

HTH

 

[danepatrick]

naja, i'm hard headed and want to figure it out and be able to help others who run into the same problems in the future, rather than backing out. I WILL NOT WIMP OUT!!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHA!!!! :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

 

[yoink]

I would up the phosphate dosing for a few week to see if that helps. I used to get GSA if I slacked on the PO4 dosing, despite 1-2ppm levels in the tap and 3ppm+ test results(horrible AP test kit).

 

[Naja002]

i had only 96 watts on it for a LONG time and i am just not satisfied with the growth, so i bumped it up.

So, why not try a 2, 3, or 4hr burst instead of the 5? It doesn't sound like its going to take much. You definitely have the skills, but something is going to have to give somewhere.

it's not that i'm having algae problems left and right guys. i think you're misunderstanding me. this one particular kind of algae is the only problem my tank faces.

Personally, I got that and I'm impressed. That's part of my interest in this thread--Hopefully, one of the gurus will come along and spell it out for us.

i had plants that should get red, and didn't. now my r. wallichi, l. repens, l. arcuata, and r. rotundfolia is all getting bright red as far as 6" from the surface!! that's such an improvement. i'm diligent about WC's and dosing. i don't over feed. i don't mean to sound frustrated, but what i'm looking for is advice on balancing nutrients. i don't think my light is "too high". amano uses 4 and 5 watts per gallon on all of his tanks. so do many other people.

Right, and that's the problem with riding High Light--the narrow margin of error. And even then Maintaining everything within that margin--Long-term. Also, AFAIK TB claims repeatedly that Amano and other True Gurus don't use anywhere near that much light.

naja, i'm hard headed and want to figure it out and be able to help others who run into the same problems in the future, rather than backing out. I WILL NOT WIMP OUT!!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHA!!!! :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

That's Cool. I have that Quality myself at times, so I can definitely understand. :hihi:

So, the Light Stays--NP.

Does the GSA just show up in certain places--or is it spread around? Sometimes it will just build on an area where there is excess light--like on the glass where light is hitting it hard.

 

[danepatrick]

yea, i could definately bump the 5 down to 4 and see how it does. i've just FINALLY got the reds that i've been striving for and hate to lose them.

i'm glad you understand where i'm coming from. well, it's easy to see what light amano uses. on say a 90cm tank, he uses a 150 watt metal halide. i only use a little more light than that.

the GSA shows up only on certain plants such as marsilea, anubias, and bacopa, and on the glass ONLY where the substrate meets the glass. NO WHERE else.

ok, i know these pictures are crap and blurred, but you get to see what i'm talking about.

 

[Naja002]

yea, i could definately bump the 5 down to 4 and see how it does. i've just FINALLY got the reds that i've been striving for and hate to lose them.

My opinion is: It would be well worth the trade-off--ie, Slighty less light for More Wiggle Room. A thought to keep in mind is that it might be worth the effort to step down the lighting hr by hr to find the balance--and then start working your way up again slowly. In other words, 1hr down and see the effect, then 2, then 3 etc. Once You find the balance point of the light with everything else---then step up hr by hr and see the changes and the requirements needed to over come them.

i'm glad you understand where i'm coming from. well, it's easy to see what light amano uses. on say a 90cm tank, he uses a 150 watt metal halide. i only use a little more light than that.

I don't use MH, so I haven't paid that much attention, but isn't the WPG Rule different with MH?

the GSA shows up only on certain plants such as marsilea, anubias, and bacopa, and on the glass ONLY where the substrate meets the glass. NO WHERE else.

Anubias are just slow growers. I get GSA on mine whenever I don't dose enough or frequently enough. Also, they seem to get GSA when exposed to too much light--regardless of the rest of the tank's performance. You may just want to shade them or shade them more. My nana petite do wonderfully very, very shaded in an already low-light set up: 2.3wpg.

Bacopa is a fairly slow grower for me, but, again, I use/prefer lower light setups. The APC plantfinder lists them as Fast or Medium--depending upon which species. So, it may or may not be a "Slower Grower" issue. How does Your Bacopa perform compared to the other fast growing plants?

Marsilea is considered a Medium Grower by the PT Plantfinder, so, again, You may just be pushing these particular plants too hard.

I am thinking that I read somewhere today to add more P for these slower growers--If so, I believe it was in reference to anaubias. If I find it again--I'll point You to it........

The Glass and the substrate---I don't know. Are they areas of lower flow? Might be the same problem with the glosso.....

Just some food for thought....

HTH

 

[danepatrick]

they are all in different areas of the tank. i think i'm going to trim that marsilea out, and replant the clean stems. then i'll lower the blast from 5 to 4 hours. let it go for a couple of weeks and see how it reacts.

same problem with the glosso? what are you talking about?

 

[Naja002]

same problem with the glosso? what are you talking about?

Lower flow, but the glosso in the pic isn't crowded at all.....

 

[danepatrick]

thats not glosso. that's the marsilea.

 

[Naja002]

thats not glosso. that's the marsilea.

Ok, my Bad.....:tongue: Up close it still looks like glosso to me.......:hihi:

But I've no doubt that You know what You're growing......roud: