Add plants. Seachem Prime also neutralizes some nitrates iirc. Matrix will do nothing for your nitrates. It merely serves as a surface for your beneficial bacteria to grow (which process ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate).
Can't get nitrates down. Seachem matrix vs denitrate
I've been using eheim substrate pro for my biological media. Nitrates always reads 20ppm sometimes 40ppm. My problem is I can't never get my nitrates down to 10ppm or even desirably 5ppm.
So I would like to try something new something like Seachem Matrix or Seachem DeNitrate. After researching the two product is basically the same stuff just different pebble size.
After further research... Seachem DeNitrate only work best under 50gph of flow. I'm using Eheim 2213 and it has 116gph. Basically if I'm using DeNitrate it will defeat the purpose.
Hope you guys can chime in and share your info
I really wanted to keep BKK, Taiwan bees, ect. but really nervous with my 20-40ppm of nitrates.
So I would like to try something new something like Seachem Matrix or Seachem DeNitrate. After researching the two product is basically the same stuff just different pebble size.
After further research... Seachem DeNitrate only work best under 50gph of flow. I'm using Eheim 2213 and it has 116gph. Basically if I'm using DeNitrate it will defeat the purpose.
Hope you guys can chime in and share your info
I really wanted to keep BKK, Taiwan bees, ect. but really nervous with my 20-40ppm of nitrates.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
It's not as much about the flow as it is getting the media in contact with very low oxygen water. This is why they chain 2-4 filters together. By the time the water has hit the 4th filter, it is oxygen depleted by going through the filter and not being able to exchange oxygen with the surface, like in the tank. In a low oxygen, or Anaerobic environment, bacteria that eat nitrates can live. In high oxygen, Aerobic ones lives, which eat the ammonia and nitrites. This is why some reefers do fluid sand beds. Deep under 8" of sand, there is little oxygen and their nitrates get eaten up. you get 1 or 2 of those prefilter boxes that people use and fill it with those medias above and it may help a lot. The denitrate has very small holes in it, so it tries to help the nitrate bacteria growing by being in a slower flow (<50gph) water and with small, deep pores, the idea is less oxygen makes it to the very center of the denitrate.
Not really true, read what I posted above. In a low-to none oxygen environment, Nitrate eating bacteria grow. Matrix is designed to get the bacteria to the middle of the media where O2 is the lowest. Other media will work if chain 3-4 canisters together or do some kind of DIY filter at the end of any canister to keep the water in the filtration chain the longest before it gets back to the surface of the tank.Add plants. Seachem Prime also neutralizes some nitrates iirc. Matrix will do nothing for your nitrates. It merely serves as a surface for your beneficial bacteria to grow (which process ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate).
Thanks for the reply!It's not as much about the flow as it is getting the media in contact with very low oxygen water. This is why they chain 2-4 filters together. By the time the water has hit the 4th filter, it is oxygen depleted by going through the filter and not being able to exchange oxygen with the surface, like in the tank. In a low oxygen, or Anaerobic environment, bacteria that eat nitrates can live. In high oxygen, Aerobic ones lives, which eat the ammonia and nitrites. This is why some reefers do fluid sand beds. Deep under 8" of sand, there is little oxygen and their nitrates get eaten up. you get 1 or 2 of those prefilter boxes that people use and fill it with those medias above and it may help a lot. The denitrate has very small holes in it, so it tries to help the nitrate bacteria growing by being in a slower flow (<50gph) water and with small, deep pores, the idea is less oxygen makes it to the very center of the denitrate.
I think this is why I have somewhat high nitrate. My substrate is akadama with 3cm (barely over the black rim) of depth. I guess I have no anaerobic bacteria whatsoever in my system.
So GeToChKn, what would you do with 1 eheim 22213? Stick with Matrix or DeNitrate?
What would you do if you have 4 filters chained together? would you load it Matrix or DeNitrate?
You'd think the oxygen content would be the highest where the most flow is (filter itself), no? To me this means that the filter should just be chemical/biological (aerobic bacteria)/mechanical and the substrate (where least oxygen is likely to exist) is where you'll find the most anaerobic bacteria. I may be wrong, though.
This is what I realize too. But seachem claimed DeNitrate can hold anaerobic bacteria if its placed in a canister filter with less than 50gph of flow. Then again what canister filter has less than 50gph flow :confused1:?You'd think the oxygen content would be the highest where the most flow is (filter itself), no? To me this means that the filter should just be chemical/biological (aerobic bacteria)/mechanical and the substrate (where least oxygen is likely to exist) is where you'll find the most anaerobic bacteria. I may be wrong, though.
You won't get aerobic bacteria in any normal substrate, regardless of depth really because there is no flow. With too deep of substrate, especially sand you run the risk of sulfide pockets because the gas builds up.Thanks for the reply!
I think this is why I have somewhat high nitrate. My substrate is akadama with 3cm (barely over the black rim) of depth. I guess I have no anaerobic bacteria whatsoever in my system.
So GeToChKn, what would you do with 1 eheim 22213? Stick with Matrix or DeNitrate?
What would you do if you have 4 filters chained together? would you load it Matrix or DeNitrate?
A member on a local forum and bought one of those pre-filter canisters and filled it with denitrate and got his nitrates down just running it after the canister output.
Flow, and intake of a canister has nothing really to do with O2 content of the water, just like an airstone doesn't add any O2 to the water at all, airstones make bubbles which break the surface tension of the water which cause it to exchange gases with the air, thus adding O2 to the water, to roughly equalize itself with the O2 level of the air, and CO2 level as well. Even if you don't run CO2 in your tank, running an airstone actually adds CO2 to the water.You'd think the oxygen content would be the highest where the most flow is (filter itself), no? To me this means that the filter should just be chemical/biological (aerobic bacteria)/mechanical and the substrate (where least oxygen is likely to exist) is where you'll find the most anaerobic bacteria. I may be wrong, though.
I'm sure of the exact process of why water that stays in a canister or series of canisters, etc gets more depleted of O2, maybe because it's being robbed of it's O2 to help saturate the water around it with more O2 or something, that part I don't know, but it does, and when it does, anaerobic bacteria will grow and go mange, mange, mange on nitrates. Looks up fluid sand filters. They're pretty neat and actually not that hard of a thing to do for a DIY.
May I ask if that member from a local forum has any problem with the canister motor? If I can recall correctly its a no-no to have blockage after the canister itself, thus putting pressure on the motor/ shaft.You won't get aerobic bacteria in any normal substrate, regardless of depth really because there is no flow. With too deep of substrate, especially sand you run the risk of sulfide pockets because the gas builds up.
A member on a local forum and bought one of those pre-filter canisters and filled it with denitrate and got his nitrates down just running it after the canister output.
It's not a blockage though, it's just running through more media. If it was dangerous, would people run 4 canisters chained together.May I ask if that member from a local forum has any problem with the canister motor? If I can recall correctly its a no-no to have blockage after the canister itself, thus putting pressure on the motor/ shaft.
As far as restricting the outflow somewhat on a canister filter by either ball-value, reducing pipe size, running through another canister/container of something, etc, read through this.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189034
Thanks for clear it up for me!It's not a blockage though, it's just running through more media. If it was dangerous, would people run 4 canisters chained together.
As far as restricting the outflow somewhat on a canister filter by either ball-value, reducing pipe size, running through another canister/container of something, etc, read through this.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189034
btw, back to my original question... would you use Matrix or DeNitrate?
Are there Nitrates in the water that you use for water changes?
Nope. 0ppm 100% ROAre there Nitrates in the water that you use for water changes?
Maybe your canister filter is being a Nitrate farm like the salt water guys say. When was the last time you cleaned it?
Bacteria eat nitrates? What? I wasn't aware that any media could remove nitrates, trap it perhaps. I imagine the media will become saturated eventually and end up pouring it back into the water column.
Add plants sir, or do more water changes. Nitrates cannot accumulate without ammonia -> nitrites. Throw in some floaters or fast growing stems to convert it to plant mass.
Add plants sir, or do more water changes. Nitrates cannot accumulate without ammonia -> nitrites. Throw in some floaters or fast growing stems to convert it to plant mass.
I'm still kinda confused too...Bacteria eat nitrates? What? I wasn't aware that any media could remove nitrates, trap it perhaps. I imagine the media will become saturated eventually and end up pouring it back into the water column.
Add plants sir, or do more water changes. Nitrates cannot accumulate without ammonia -> nitrites. Throw in some floaters or fast growing stems to convert it to plant mass.
Ammonia -> aerobic bacteria -> Nitrite -> aerobic bacteria -> Nitrate -> anaerobic bacteria -> ???
I do weekly water change 10% (2 gallon) on my 20g long tank. I feed my shrimps every 2 days.
My plan is to sell all my CRS and replace them with BKK. My CRS thrives in this 20ppm nitrates, but I don't know about BKK.
Now I found two things that made my nitrates quite high. One is shallow substrate, the second is lack of plants.
Btw does IAL, cholla woods, and alder cones produce nitrate as they decompose? Because I'm sure I got tons of them in my tank.
Ammonia -> (Nitrosonomas) -> Nitrite -> (mainly Nitrospira, also Crenarchaetoa, Nitrobachter, +others) -> Nitrates -> (What bacteria strain eats Nitrates? You need special Seachem media to grow these!?)
Any decaying matter produces Ammonia at various rates, decaying organisms faster than decay plant matter. This gets converted down to Nitrites then Nitrates.
I found this... http://israel21c.org/environment/bio-filter-blasts-nitrates-out-of-the-water/
Well, I know for sure plants work, so try that Or you'll have to up those water changes, which is also bad since parameters will vary. So.. perhaps 10% twice a week. Plants = easier.
Any decaying matter produces Ammonia at various rates, decaying organisms faster than decay plant matter. This gets converted down to Nitrites then Nitrates.
I found this... http://israel21c.org/environment/bio-filter-blasts-nitrates-out-of-the-water/
Does not say the bacteria strain. Weird.Nussinovitch, an expert in biological carriers, and van Rijn, a specialist in bacteria, paired up to develop a bio-filter composed of tiny Styrofoam-like white beads that carry nitrate-eating bacteria. When added to a water well, aquifer or aquarium, the bio-filter does its job effectively and cheaply.
Well, I know for sure plants work, so try that
Or you'll have to up those water changes, which is also bad since parameters will vary. So.. perhaps 10% twice a week. Plants = easier.
I never said shallow substrate causes it. Plants do help eat the ammonia in the first place before it can even hit the filter.I'm still kinda confused too...
Ammonia -> aerobic bacteria -> Nitrite -> aerobic bacteria -> Nitrate -> anaerobic bacteria -> ???
I do weekly water change 10% (2 gallon) on my 20g long tank. I feed my shrimps every 2 days.
My plan is to sell all my CRS and replace them with BKK. My CRS thrives in this 20ppm nitrates, but I don't know about BKK.
Now I found two things that made my nitrates quite high. One is shallow substrate, the second is lack of plants.
Btw does IAL, cholla woods, and alder cones produce nitrate as they decompose? Because I'm sure I got tons of them in my tank.
Nitrogen Gas.I'm still kinda confused too...
Ammonia -> aerobic bacteria -> Nitrite -> aerobic bacteria -> Nitrate -> anaerobic bacteria -> ???
Which will off-gas with surface agitation if it's greater than the atmosphere.Nitrogen Gas.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
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