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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. Size of tank? 75 gallon

2. Water parameters
a. Ammonia? Zero
b. Nitrite? Zero
c. Nitrate? 20-30
d. pH, KH and GH? pH 7.6, unsure on the others
e. Test kit? API liquid

3. Temperature? 78

4. FW (fresh water) or BW (brackish)? Fresh

5. How long the aquarium has been set up? 2 months, just finished cycling

6. What fish do you have? How many are in your tank? How big are they? How long have you had them?
Had 11 Black Neons, lost two today. 8 Glowlight Tetras, 3 otocats. All are <2" and they have been in the tank since yesterday.
7. Were the fish placed under quarantine period (minus the first batch from the point wherein the tank is ready to accommodate the inhabitants)? No since they were the first fish in the tank.

8. a. Any live plants? Fake plants? Live plants
b. Sand, gravel, barebottom? Sand
c. Rocks, woods, fancy decors? Any hollow decors? Rocks and one small piece of wood covered with java moss

9. a. Filtration? AquaClear 110 with two sponges
b. Heater? EboJager 250w

10. a. Lighting schedule? What lights are used? Four 6500k T8 tubes
b. Any sunlight exposure? How long? None

11. a. Water change schedule?
b. Volume of water changed?
c. Well water, tap water, RO water? Tap water
d. Water conditioner used? API Stress Coat +
e. Frequency of gravel/sand (if any) vacuumed?

12. Foods?
How often are they fed? Tropical flakes, twice a day

13. a. Any abnormal signs/symptoms?
b. Appearance of poop?
c. Appearance of gills? Normal

14. a. Have you treated your fish ahead of diagnosis?
b. What meds were used?

15. Insert photos of fish in question and full tank shot if necessary.





As you can see...there is a white patch on top just in front of the pectoral fin that appears to be under the scales and white stuff coming from the mouth of this fish. One other fish, also a Black Neon, has the patch on top but nothing in the mouth. A third Black Neon has a few small white specs on its tail. Two Black Neons were found dead/dying when I got home from school today but neither appeared to be affected with white "stuff". All fish were placed in the tank yesterday.
 

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You recently got these fish, right? I would say they came in sick from the pet store. If you have another tank to quarantine the black neons or at least the obviously sick ones you might be able to keep it from spreading to the others.

To me if looks like a fungus, but I have no personal experience with that, so hopefully you can do some research to verify what it is, or someone else on here will be able to tell you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Got them yesterday. All fish looked good last night. Went to school and came home around 2pm and found two dead and the two with the white stuff. Now there is another fish acting very strange but has no white areas...the parameters seem good and I know the tank is cycled properly. I did a large water change yesterday and conditioned the water. I don't doubt the fish are sick from the store and the stress caused it to kick into high gear. I just hope I can get it figured out in time. I don't have a hospital tank but I guess I need to get one or at least move the sick fish to a bucket or something. I have extra filters, heaters, and pumps.
 

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Looks like a fungus/ick/something like that. You may have already infected your other fish. You can try a bit of aquarium salt and raising the heat before resorting to other meds.
 

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It's not ich; I really think it's fungus, and you should look into if the symptoms for that match your fish. Often fungus is curable but you need to start treatment as soon as possible to save as many fish as you can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Started Furan 2 and I'm picking up some Pimafix tomorrow to treat for possible fungus and it's supposed to help with columnaris which is what I think this might be. I also need more Furan 2 since I only had enough for one treatment and I need a total of 4...so I am going to grab some Kanamycin as well to really kick this bug in the nuts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
From what I read it is effective against early out breaks of columnaris. It is also supposed to be a good antifungal. Fungal infections from what I have read is the most common secondary illness that fish get while sick with columnaris. It might not matter anyways...I lost another one since my last post and at that time none of the fish looked ill except the two with white patches and it wasn't either of them that died. I'm just at a loss at this point. I treated the tank with Furan 2, that's all I can do until tomorrow afternoon after I get home from work. That is if there are even any fish left at that point.
 

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Hi

Sorry for your loss, Nubster. I've had sick fish before and I know how stressful it can be, especially when the diagnosis is, at best, an educated guess. The learning curve in this hobby is very daunting (IMHO). It can be really discouraging--feeling concerned about the well-being of the fish (at least, I am worried about their suffering...maybe I am too sensitive about this and others don't let it bother them much); not knowing the best course of treatment, and of course all the money spent on the fish and the medicines and the time running to the LFS and researching on the internet blah blah blah. FRUSTRATING!

I agree that your fish were probably sick when you purchased them. Stress of rehoming (again) compromised their immune system. Or maybe they would have looked this way at the store today--no way to know, unfortunately.

I've had tetras develop similar symptoms shortly after being introduced to my (established) tank. Not ich, but white spots/growths, especially at the front of the dorsal fin.

In my personal experience, I have treated them successfully with ER Erythomycin. I put them in a 10 gallon hospital tank, also--to quarantine and to keep the medicine from affecting the balance of my big tank. They started showing improvement on day 2 and after a full course of treatment, they were healthy! Saved every one.

Recently treated some neons with ER Fungus Cure. They died within 48 hours. Don't know if I waited too long to treat them, or if I gave the wrong medicine, or what. They were in hospital tank too. And, as you described, they were gasping at the surface for hours before they sank to the bottom and finally kicked it. Crappy!

If I was in your situation, I would put the sick ones in a hospital tank if possible and treat with Erythromycin. If you don't have a hospital tank, a clean plastic container would be ok.

I wish I could offer more advice.

Good luck and please update this thread with the results, for better or worse.
 

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This is a bit off topic but to be honest I always suggest quarantining even the first batch of fish that go in a newly set up tank. Reason being you just put all this work into setting up the tank, you've (hopefully) done a fishless cycle. Then you go and put sick fish in it and take a chance of having to tear the tank down to disinfect it. Makes no sense.
 

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I hope it's not columnaris, but it looks like it to me. I've been having an ongoing thread about what I believe is columnaris in my 55, (never had a rest done to confirm it) so you may want to read it - lots of people chimed in to help me. I never saw any fungus in the fish's mouths, and only a few fish showed a fungus like growth at all. Most died within hours of swimming of to themselves/hiding and not feeding.
I don't know what turned the tide for me - or even if it's been turned yet - but I went through the maracyn/maracyn2 doses, and started the triple sulfa doses. Today I was able to get coppersafe, recommended by one of the posters on my thread and furan-2, also recommended. I haven't used them, but they are here if I want to. I finally bought a quarantine/hospital tank today - I'm cycling it now. I hope to transfer my remaining live fish to it and I'm going to break down my 55 - my outbreak was horrendous and has so far killed 22 of my fish, I don't trust the tank & want to start it over.
Hopefully you caught yours in time to avoid my pitfall.
Good luck!

OOOPS! My apologies, I just realized you were one of the last posters on my thread...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yeah...I know I should have quarantined. I have always just been able to dodge that bullet in the past...guess it caught up to me. Too late at this point...big lesson learned.

I went to the store today...told them what happened, they tested a water sample from my tank and gave me credit for new fish. I checked out the Black Neons and they are looking just fine. So it had to be the stress off moving that set things off. And another Black Neon kicked the bucket today while I was at work. At this point all the fish look ok...it's just like suddenly it will start acting funny...swimming to one side of the tank away from the others...and be dead within an hour of this taking place...just a sudden onset. So at this point I am going to continue treatment with Furan 2 and hope for the best. The Glowlights are looking great as are the otos (knock on driftwood) so all I can do is hope they stay that way. I will definitely be getting a quarantine tank soon and start using it for now on with all new fish.
 

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Do you have more than one filter running on your main tank, or do you have a filter that you'd be able to put cycled media from your main filter into for the QT? Because than you have an instant cycled quarantine and can move your fish right away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have two sponges in my filter so yeah...I can move one over to a quarantine tank. I guess the bad thing is that at this point, if my fish have columnaria, it's my understanding that the WHOLE tank needs treated, not just the fish. I mean I guess I could move the fish to a small tank and tear down and disinfect the big tank...I really don't want to do that though. I'll treat the whole thing for a week and see what happens. If it shows again, then I'll tear it down and go from there.
 

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That looks like columnaris to me, see how it's coming from underneath the scales. Have never seen fungus on the mouth either, that's how columnaris gets the common name 'cottonmouth'. Kanamycin is the only thing I've personally used to treat it. If you use it in the main tank you need to do heavy water changes between doses and put a mature filter from another tank on after treatment is finished, to keep the cycle, then test ammonia and nitrite and do daily water changes if necessary as if you're recycling the tank. I'd personally treat in a QT and watch the main tank for a while, as I understand it this bacteria is always present in the tank and only attacks the weakest immune systems when it's population increases. So I would keep the tank cool, and treat the sick fish in QT.

I think there is a peroxide treatment too but I don't know the dosage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok...I'm picking up a tank tomorrow for hospital/quarantine. I'll stick the three neons I have left in there and treat them with Furan 2 that I have (ordering Kanamycin tomorrow if I can't find it at the LFS). The tetras that are in the tank too are not dying or showing signs of anything. Should I put them in the hospital tank as well? The ottos? I lost one of them today...up until it died it showed no signs of being sick. If I remove all the fish, should I treat the empty main tank? If so, with what? I don't want to get my fish well again only to place them back in an infected tank. Also I think the neons have ick on top of all this so they need treated for that as well. And last...what about the plants?
 
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