Yes
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Biological vs Mechanical Filtration
So I have a theory and I'm having a hard time finding info and this might be common knowledge so please feel free to tell me that lol.
I am doing a walstad tank and was reading that some people choose to use mechanical filtration. Obviously using biological filtration would defeat the purpose and make the walstad tank a lowtech tank.
My question is, wouldn't mechanical filtration become biological if it is not cleaned?
The bacteria would grow on it and cause it be biological right?
I am doing a walstad tank and was reading that some people choose to use mechanical filtration. Obviously using biological filtration would defeat the purpose and make the walstad tank a lowtech tank.
My question is, wouldn't mechanical filtration become biological if it is not cleaned?
The bacteria would grow on it and cause it be biological right?
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I think practically the bacteria will grow on substrate and any surface in tank?
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I consider the most distinguishing characteristic of a walstad tank to be the organic substrate (soil).
Bacteria will cover every surface available to them, even on plant leaves.
So then what's the point of biological media in a filter?
Biological media provide large surface area in small volume for bacteria, water pump carry ammonia and nitrite from water column to bacteria to convert to final product nitrate.So then what's the point of biological media in a filter?
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First of all, the Walstad method IS low tech...and Diana used filtration, but more for water flow she felt was very important. The Walstad method doesn't discourage beneficial biology, but rather embraces it so that the organic waste of fish food and fish waste is decomposed to organically feed the plants.
What Wong said.Biological media provide large surface area in small volume for bacteria, water pump carry ammonia and nitrite from water column to bacteria to convert to final product nitrate.
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Just some additional information... Actually technically all mechanical and chemical filtration media can also can serve as breeding bed for bacteria of biological filtration. I can't just kill all the bacteria just to force the filter to just carry out mechanical or chemical filtration.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that if the tank is low stocked and with a lot of plants, there is easily enough of surface area just inside the aquarium for the bacteria to grow. And when surface area is not restricting, the size of bacteria population mostly relates to how much "food" is available for them. So in such case, adding bio filtration will not strenghten the population very much.
And by having bio filtering inside a filter, you are essentially just encouraging even bigger part of the bacteria population to move inside your filter and not stay inside the tank. And I think that might not be optimal, since it is way harder to accidentally kill the bacteria in the tank vs inside the filter. Some of the bacteria will for sure thrive in the mechanical filtration anyway.
So for highly planted low stock tank, I would not add bio filtration, or I would at least play it down.
And by having bio filtering inside a filter, you are essentially just encouraging even bigger part of the bacteria population to move inside your filter and not stay inside the tank. And I think that might not be optimal, since it is way harder to accidentally kill the bacteria in the tank vs inside the filter. Some of the bacteria will for sure thrive in the mechanical filtration anyway.
So for highly planted low stock tank, I would not add bio filtration, or I would at least play it down.
Plants tend to use ammonium as nitrogen source instead of nitrate. While dissolve in water, most of the ammonia produce will stay in ammonium form instead of ammonia. This mean that plant also compete with bacteria for ammonia / food.
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This chart shows the ratio of ammonia in ammonia and ammonium form.
Actually this lead me to think... Bacteria consuming unionised form of ammonia or ionised form of ammonia (ammonium). During cycle process can we use ammonium instead of ammonia water to do the cycle? We are using ammonium hydroxide anyway (ammonia water/ dissolved ammonia )
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This chart shows the ratio of ammonia in ammonia and ammonium form.
Actually this lead me to think... Bacteria consuming unionised form of ammonia or ionised form of ammonia (ammonium). During cycle process can we use ammonium instead of ammonia water to do the cycle? We are using ammonium hydroxide anyway (ammonia water/ dissolved ammonia )
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Defeat what purpose? In reality, there will always be beneficial bacteria in even the heaviest of planted tanks...even in a Walstad tank. It's just that the colony(ies) size will likely be smaller in the planted tank as there will be less food in the form of ammonia and nitrite.I am doing a walstad tank and was reading that some people choose to use mechanical filtration. Obviously using biological filtration would defeat the purpose and make the walstad tank a lowtech tank.
My question is, wouldn't mechanical filtration become biological if it is not cleaned?
The bacteria would grow on it and cause it be biological right?
As mentioned, the filter serves as a great platform for a beneficial bacteria colony because food and O2 are continuously delivered. I used to buy into the hype that we needed over priced 'bio-media', but eventually learned that sponge materials work great, cost very little, and last nearly forever!
Anyway, cleaned or not, mechanical filtration will also serve as biological filtration....and that's just fine!
Hey thanks for replying, I honestly didn't expect so much response lol!
Okay so obviously beneficial bacteria is going to be in the tank no matter what and that's great but wouldn't allowing a large amount of bacteria to grow on media deprive plants of nutrients?
Oh and I'm right there with you abbeysdad about not using over priced media, I use bioballs (they're also good to cycle new tanks) and polyfill (pillow stuffing!)
What I'm trying to figure out is how can I still have mechanical filtration without having biological?
If I have interpreted Diana Walstads method wrong please let me know but I thought a big part of it is not having a biofilter and very few water changes once its up and running. Otherwise wouldn't it just be a lowtech dirted tank?
Okay so obviously beneficial bacteria is going to be in the tank no matter what and that's great but wouldn't allowing a large amount of bacteria to grow on media deprive plants of nutrients?
Oh and I'm right there with you abbeysdad about not using over priced media, I use bioballs (they're also good to cycle new tanks) and polyfill (pillow stuffing!)
What I'm trying to figure out is how can I still have mechanical filtration without having biological?
If I have interpreted Diana Walstads method wrong please let me know but I thought a big part of it is not having a biofilter and very few water changes once its up and running. Otherwise wouldn't it just be a lowtech dirted tank?
I don't really think you've interpreted wrong, but what exactly do you think the difference is between Walstads method and "just..a lowtech dirted tank"? I think you're getting hung up on the term biofilter. I'm certainly not a Walstad expert (far from it) but I think you're getting hung up on the no bio filter thing. You'll have bio filtration, you just won't have a specific piece of equipment and specific media who's only purpose is bio filtration. The entire tank is your bio filter.Hey thanks for replying, I honestly didn't expect so much response lol!
Okay so obviously beneficial bacteria is going to be in the tank no matter what and that's great but wouldn't allowing a large amount of bacteria to grow on media deprive plants of nutrients?
Oh and I'm right there with you abbeysdad about not using over priced media, I use bioballs (they're also good to cycle new tanks) and polyfill (pillow stuffing!)
What I'm trying to figure out is how can I still have mechanical filtration without having biological?
If I have interpreted Diana Walstads method wrong please let me know but I thought a big part of it is not having a biofilter and very few water changes once its up and running. Otherwise wouldn't it just be a lowtech dirted tank?
Look at this description from nature aquarium;
Walstad Method is a kind of an aquarium setup made popular by Diana Walstad. Its ultimate goal is to establish a balanced ecosystem in a fish tank. The soil provides the right nutrients for the plants and a home to beneficial bacteria which recycle the fish waste. Here are some of the things that have to be accomplished in a Walstad Method:
– Excellent plant growth
– No CO2 fertilization required
– Very minimal Algae
– No need to apply fertilizer
– Add trace elements for fish health
– Stable environment for fauna
– Minimal maintenance or less water changes
– Smell free tank
– Biofilter comes from the plants itself
The method goes like this. The beneficial bacteria in the soil will detoxify ammonia and nitrite. Since it also contains denitrifying bacteria, it will also remove nitrates. These nitrates are then consumed by plants. Soil will also release carbonates which will stimulate plant growth. Fish waste and uneaten food will be converted by the bacteria into a level useable by plants. This method is not as attractive as the Nature Aquarium and the Dutch Style, but if you want a real natural method, this is the way to go.
As far as I can tell the difference between a lowtech dirted tank and a Walstad tank would be the use of filters and frequent water changes. This is a really basic run down of the Walstad method Walstad method - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wikibut what exactly do you think the difference is between Walstads method and "just..a lowtech dirted tank"? I think you're getting hung up on the term biofilter.
Like I said I understand that there will be beneficial bacteria all over the surfaces of the tank.The entire tank is your bio filter.
you just won't have a specific piece of equipment and specific media who's only purpose is bio filtration.
This is exactly what I am trying to achieve. I don't want the plants competing with the bacteria.The method goes like this. The beneficial bacteria in the soil will detoxify ammonia and nitrite. Since it also contains denitrifying bacteria, it will also remove nitrates. These nitrates are then consumed by plants. Soil will also release carbonates which will stimulate plant growth. Fish waste and uneaten food will be converted by the bacteria into a level useable by plants.
I also don't want a stagnant box of water on my kitchen counter which is why I am trying to find out if I can use my filter to create water movement and get rid of large pieces of gunk, without creating a large amount of bacteria thus creating competition with the plants.
A key here is that plants prefer ammonia/ammonium as their nitrogen source and as such, they will out compete bacteria resulting in a rather small beneficial bacteria colony(ies).
A mechanical filter with just sponge would be just fine, primarily to circulate water, but trapping some detritus is just fine. Sure, perhaps some BB will also live there, but so be it.
A mechanical filter with just sponge would be just fine, primarily to circulate water, but trapping some detritus is just fine. Sure, perhaps some BB will also live there, but so be it.
I've never thought about the bacteria competing with the plants and I really have no basis for saying that I thinks it's just completely a non factor. If I put some food on a plate on my kitchen counter bacteria will eventually eat it. As long as I don't leave my plate of food on the counter for several months I don't think it will be an issue for me to outcompete the bacteria for the food.
The way I understand it all Walstad tanks are low tech planted tanks. Most low tech planted tanks are not Walstad tanks.
The way I understand it all Walstad tanks are low tech planted tanks. Most low tech planted tanks are not Walstad tanks.
Hmm so are you saying plants might out compete the bacteria to the point that there wouldn't be much bacteria anyway? I think what I'll do is just keep using the filter for water movement and only put polyfil in if the tank looks murky. That's what I've done the last few days to get rid of the mess that putting the plants in causedA key here is that plants prefer ammonia/ammonium as their nitrogen source and as such, they will out compete bacteria resulting in a rather small beneficial bacteria colony(ies).
A mechanical filter with just sponge would be just fine, primarily to circulate water, but trapping some detritus is just fine. Sure, perhaps some BB will also live there, but so be it.
In a fish only tank, beneficial bacteria colony(ies) (nitrosomonas and nitrospira) will grow in size according to the available food (ammonia and nitrite) and oxygen. In a planted tank, hungry, growing plants will use ammonia as their primary nitrogen source. That being the case there will be less food for bacteria, resulting in smaller colony(ies). This is merely a natural balance and is a good thing, resulting in lower nitrates.I've never thought about the bacteria competing with the plants and I really have no basis for saying that I thinks it's just completely a non factor.
As a matter of fact, in a heavily planted tank, 'cycling' as we understand it to be is almost a moot point since ammonia is primarily processed by plants.
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