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I've installed an Eheim 2217 on my 90 gallon and it runs fine. However, every time I unplug it, the clips spring off and the lid rushes up and the siphoning continues.

I do have the tank only halfway filled, but that's never been an issue with the 20+ canisters I've ever used. Am I missing something here?

It won't do this if I shut off the valves, but surely that shouldn't have to be done to unplug it. I have to be missing something. The red O ring is on the lid and this is happening with it fully shut.

Any ideas? I can't trust to even run it right now--what if I have a power outage? The whole tank will drain...
 

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Wow!!! Sounds like it's not sealed properly to start with. Mine you'd have to pry it off!! Perhaps you have to much media in the canister. I have the same 2217 on 100 gallon tank. The metal springs aren't that hardy but the seal is!! In order for the seal to unlock I have to open the out take valve and drain water out. If it's not too much media in the canister then it has to be a defective seal.
 

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Wow!!! Sounds like it's not sealed properly to start with. Mine you'd have to pry it off!! Perhaps you have to much media in the canister. I have the same 2217 on 100 gallon tank. The metal springs aren't that hardy but the seal is!! In order for the seal to unlock I have to open the out take valve and drain water out. If it's not too much media in the canister then it has to be a defective seal.

That's what I was maybe thinking--maybe too much media. I'll reduce it and try again. I stuffed it until the inner brim when seems to be a few inches below the top. I'll take some out and report back.

I hope it's not the seal. Thanks again for the quick response!

Ok, I removed almost all of the filter media, tried again. It's definitely a defective seal or problem with the canister. Same thing happened.

It's gonna be a pain getting this back to drfostersandsmith. I'll just go buy a filter at petsmart in the meantime. Like I've said, I've run many many fluvals, renas, etc and I've never had an issue like this ever.

Any additional ideas are welcome. Thanks!
 

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Something missing, broken or defective. Once fully down and seated, you should have a devil of a time prying the top off when you forget to open the cutoffs. It normally will have an airtight seal and the vacuum will fight taking the lid off.
I may be missing a point on what you have. Are you not using the standard media that normally comes with the 2217? If you are trying to improve the media in some way, I would advise against it. That seems to be one way to mess up a truly good filter.
But then look at the top and seal for defects off something missing. It really sounds like the main seal might be missing.
 

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Something missing, broken or defective. Once fully down and seated, you should have a devil of a time prying the top off when you forget to open the cutoffs. It normally will have an airtight seal and the vacuum will fight taking the lid off.
I may be missing a point on what you have. Are you not using the standard media that normally comes with the 2217? If you are trying to improve the media in some way, I would advise against it. That seems to be one way to mess up a truly good filter.
But then look at the top and seal for defects off something missing. It really sounds like the main seal might be missing.
Yea, I called drfostersandsmith and they said the same. They're going to refund me. I could've called eheim, but it's such an extreme issue that I just rather send it back. No qualms with them overall, they're products have always been great to me.

I run 2 2217's.....no issues.....what does your O-ring look like on the top...the thing is huge.....look for nicks or scrapes?
The O ring looks really good. The unit looks really good in general lol. Just seems so weird. Hard lock when sealing, but bursts when unplugged.

I'm going to grab a fluval tomorrow at my LFS (the eheims there are outrageously expensive.)

Thanks everyone!!



Here's the tank. Brand new 90g. Running the filter until I sleep tonight (seeding it saturday with LFS gravel). It runs just fine except for the one issue. Literally cleared the tank from extremely cloudy to nearly clear in two hours.

Temporary scape until the tank is cycled. I have two more big manzita branches I'll work in and choose from. Again, thanks for the responses.
 

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What a filter nightmare!!! Glad you got a good outcome from Dr Fosters. It's a great filter I've had mine for 3 years now with no issues. Best of look your tank looks awesome!! Very clear.
 

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It normally will have an airtight seal and the vacuum will fight taking the lid off.
"Vacuum"? What vacuum? A primed canister filter installed under the tank has positive internal pressure, significantly higher than atmospheric pressure outside. It is the pressure of the entire water column from the tank water level to the filter level. This positive pressure that is constantly trying to blow the lid off the filter.

What happens in the OP's case, apparently, is that when the pump is turned off inertia of moving water creates a "hydraulic impact" of sorts. The "wall" that meets that impact is the filter media. The pressure spike caused by that impact blows the lid off.

The latches on the lid are supposed to be good enough to withstand this kind of event, even if the canister has too much media. Why they are unlatching in the OP's case is not clear.

But then look at the top and seal for defects off something missing. It really sounds like the main seal might be missing.
If the main seal was missing, the filter would be leaking like crazy.
 

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Um, then the above would beg the question of how far the filter is below the tank. The " positive internal pressure" is also counterintuitive to me, given how hard it can be to "unseal" a filter.

My physics is way rusty, but with the motor off, isn't it a closed loop in balance? Nothing going in and nothing going out? The motor is what pushes water up against friction, gravity, atmospheric pressure?

To bad I have no clue why the lit blows off? Fermentation? :)
 

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Um, then the above would beg the question of how far the filter is below the tank. The " positive internal pressure" is also counterintuitive to me, given how hard it can be to "unseal" a filter.
The source of that positive pressure is two water columns: one in the intake hose and another in the return hose. When you close the valves on the hoses (and/or disconnect the hoses), you effectively seal and disconnect the inner volume of the filter from the pressure source. At that moment the inner pressure is still maintained: it is effectively "stored" in the flexible walls of the canister - they inevitably bulge out slightly under pressure.

However, the flex in the canister walls is normally very small in magnitude, which is why when you begin to open the lid from outside, you very quickly introduce the additional internal volume that makes the walls to straighten out and the inner pressure to drop to normal atmospheric levels. Any further attempts to move the lid (to open it) do indeed create "vacuum" (pressure lower than atmospheric), which is why we feel that resistive suction when opening canister filters.

My physics is way rusty, but with the motor off, isn't it a closed loop in balance? Nothing going in and nothing going out?
Yes, that's exactly what it is: a closed loop in balance. However, that does not change the fact that water pressure at the bottom point of that loop equals the pressure of the entire water column, measured from the water level in the tank.

If you drill a hole in your canister (instead of trying to open the lid), you will see a nice fountain of water rushing out of it.

The motor is what pushes water up against friction, gravity, atmospheric pressure?
Yes, it is the motor that pushes water. However, as you said it yourself, it is a closed loop in balance. The balance in this case is between the intake and return sides. This balance completely cancels out gravity-related workload and atmospheric pressure-related workload. I.e. in a canister filter the motor does not push anything against gravity - the so called "static head" of a closed loop system is always exactly zero. The same is true about atmospheric pressure - the motor does not work against atmospheric pressure.

In a canister filter the motor works against friction/drag and nothing else: drag in the hoses, drag in the media, turbulence etc. This is the reason why canister filters can use relatively small motors and pumps regardless of the height difference (as opposed to wet/dry filters that need more powerful pumps as height difference grows).
 

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not to hijack a thread but I just started using this filter myself and noticed a couple things.

1) it is IMPOSSIBLE to prime. Ive been setting up my new tank AGAIN and started finally running this filter. I re hosed a lot of it and used metal clamps instead of the plastic compression fittings and EVERY time I have to turn the thing off and close the valves I have to re prime it. The best way I have come up with is to remove the output hose as close as possible to the pump and while its on suck the water through manually to get it going then reattach the hose. Sucks because you end up with a mouth full of tank water. MY buddy has a canister that has a built in prime pump that seems to work great. Is there a trick to this one?

2) It makes a gurgling noise. Not all the time just periodically. I thought it was air working out of the pump but its been a day now and it will be whisper quiet then you hear like a hiss gurgle like purging water lines. I know there is no leak on the intake sucking air in.

are these issues normal?

Thanks
 

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Not normal at all! This is something that comes up reasonably frequently on the forum but often winds up with lots of confused answers. When confused I like to default back to the directions to check for what I missed. One thing often done is not the way the directions show. Do you have the canister and output line empty when trying to restart? It is not the only way to get it done but I find it to be the least trouble for me.

I think of the filter priming as a simple siphon operation. With the intake hose full and the rest empty, opening the cutoff lets the water siphon down that tube into the bottom of the can. As it does the air is forced up and out the output tube until the water fills all the way to the level of the tank water. That removes almost all the air so that the impeller is setting in water. It can't pump air but this gets the air out and when powered up all the pump needs to do is boost the water over the tank rim. This is all assuming the tubing is reasonably running uphill and not drooping so that water is trapped in the tubes at some point?

The hissing sucking might make me question the media used. If it is too tight and doesn't pass water well, that can create problems at times. Using stock media or changed in some way?

Maybe a little looking/checking will show a solution?

Good filters but like all things, they take a bit of getting some small things down.
 

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In my experience, hissing/sucking noises and difficulties in priming all point to resistance occurring somewhere - usually along the hose pipes. My 2217 did that regularly until I realised my intake sponge was getting clogged too easily. 2217 is a great filter but like all canisters it depends on siphon bringing high pressure water volume into contact with the impeller. A weak siphon is low pressure and can cause turbulence within the canister or air getting sucked on from elsewhere which creates the noise.
 

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No need to suck on hoses to prime the eheim 2217.
Only times I ever had problem's was when I discovered a small split in the return hose at the connection to spray bar (Just cut the hose back an inch past the split and re-attached)
The other time , I hooked the wrong disconnect's up to the wrong hoses.
Big hose(intake) hooks to big hose and small hose,hooks to small hose.
When I take the canister out of service for cleaning,i unplug the canister,close the disconnect's (2) and when returning the filter to service I hook back up the disconnect's,open them,and water left in the intake tube rushes into the filter and air escapes out the spray bar.
When all air has escaped (minute or two) , I plug the filter back in and away it goes.
If I had to suck on the hoses to prime it,I would have returned to my HOB filter's long ago.
If you remove the hoses to clean them,then just fill the intake hose with water before attaching it to the intake tube,and repeat the afore mentioned steps to start the filter back up.
Filling the canister with water does not work for me and is not suggested by most online direction's for priming the eheim 2217. (google is your friend).
 

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I think of the filter priming as a simple siphon operation. With the intake hose full and the rest empty, opening the cutoff lets the water siphon down that tube into the bottom of the can. As it does the air is forced up and out the output tube until the water fills all the way to the level of the tank water. That removes almost all the air so that the impeller is setting in water. It can't pump air but this gets the air out and when powered up all the pump needs to do is boost the water over the tank rim. This is all assuming the tubing is reasonably running uphill and not drooping so that water is trapped in the tubes at some point?
This siphon action is unaffected by the path the tubes take. Even if the tubes are drooping at some point, it should have no effect on the siphon.
 

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This siphon action is unaffected by the path the tubes take. Even if the tubes are drooping at some point, it should have no effect on the siphon.
I find that many theories work well on paper but not in the real world. Without trying the theory, it is often easy to miss some small item.
I find that when there is more water trapped in the output line, due to length and droops, than is in the input line, priming requires chasing the air out through the output line.
No big theory involved, it just works that way. :smile2:

This is a drawing of what I find. If we say we have an input line on the left which is two feet long and on the right we have a longer (6 feet?) output line and drooping, this is what I find. The two feet of water trying to run down will trickle into the canister until the pressure stops it. The pressure is built due to the air not being able to escape through the outlet tube as it is blocked with water. The air won't run downhill and then up to escape and the smaller amount of water on the left will not push the larger amount of water on the right. If there are no droops/sags in the line, the air will pass through the water, up and out.
Looks like a dumb way to set the filter? Not if there is already another canister on the right side of the stand. That canister will have the same priming problem except right and left are reversed. It is part of the directions that are sometimes not read thoroughly and it does cause some people trouble with priming. Much the same can happen if there is a Grigg's or Cerge's reactor full of water on the output side.
 

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in your diagram, if there is no air trapped in the intake line, pressure alone should be enough to push enough water through so the output so the water level at the intake is level with the output. if this isnt happening then you have resistance somewhere.
 
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