[Soothing Shrimp]

So far I've tried red rili x blue rili crosses by placing RR and BR in the same tank. I've wound up with red rilis with barely noticeable blue in the middle, blue rilis (no red), red rilis, and the occasional cherry. These have all interbred.

I've separated out 5 or so that have at least some blue in the middle, and now have 1 berried. It will be interesting to see the shrimplets and see how I proceed from here.

Does anyone else have BBRR or RR yet? Is everyone in the planning stages?

I know some people are setting up tanks.

 

[PatriotP]

I would love those for my new tank :O I'm new to shrimp, 10g is in cycle right now, any good reads on how to work on getting these? Or is it out of a beginners grasp?

 

[randyl]

I will start with my dream blue and do something silly to it. Will update what happens ;-)

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

Going to cross RR x Dream?

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

I would love those for my new tank :O I'm new to shrimp, 10g is in cycle right now, any good reads on how to work on getting these? Or is it out of a beginners grasp?

Not out of any beginner grasp. Basically the trick is to have red shell parts on a blue tissue body. In my experience the blue tissue gene tends to reduce or eliminate the red. Thus the trick to try to stabilize it.

That's what this club is for. Trying new ideas, theories, etc to create a BBRR. No real recipe for it yet, so anybody can join our club and have a crack at it with their own shrimp. :icon_cool

 

[PatriotP]

Not out of any beginner grasp. Basically the trick is to have red shell parts on a blue tissue body. In my experience the blue tissue gene tends to reduce or eliminate the red. Thus the trick to try to stabilize it.

That's what this club is for. Trying new ideas, theories, etc to create a BBRR. No real recipe for it yet, so anybody can join our club and have a crack at it with their own shrimp. :icon_cool

That sounds awesome, Hopefully my tank will be ready in a couple more weeks, i have plants planted just waiting on some driftwood in the mail now then for the cycle to finish! May have to start of with some Red Rilis and get them settled in then start introducing some blues sounds like a fun project! Will be back when its time to get some shrimp! :icon_cool

 

[mosspearl]

I'm subscribed! So, what do we do to start? Since I'm new to shrimp altogether, I admit I have a lot to learn. If I understand it correctly, rilis can occasionally pop up out of BVs? Of course, if I wait for that to happen, it may take quite a while.

How do you suggest I begin, Soothing? I suppose I could start with a couple RR and a couple BR, then add some of my BV once they breed.

I do have some well-established planted jars I could use or I could possibly move my betta to the 10g, provided he doesn't try to eat the guppies.

I'd be happy to trade *lots* of plants for breeding stock if anyone is interested, or I'll just wait until my budget is a little flush again to stock up.

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

RR rarely pop out of BV, but *can* pop out of BR.

Blue Rili have been bred to reduce/eliminate the red.

BV have a mutation that causes the red to fade away- usually around juvie age. You would be surprised how many sellers don't even know that. In fact, because the final coloration looks very much the same, people often assume they are, when in fact they have different genetics.

Now, having said that, you do see the occasional BVR (Blue Velvet Red). That's usually less than 1%. The red lasts until adulthood, but even then the BV mutation can still make it fade away given time.

This is why I personally chose not to use BV in the creation of BBRR. My own theory is while the first generation would probably not have the red fade (because the mutation is now split), by the 2nd generation and beyond the possibility of the mutation showing up again would be very frustrating. Just imagine you finally have nice BBRR and your stock randomly loses the red, while some keep it. It would take years to try to breed that out, and even then you may not be successful. (?)

---

However I suggest that people try their own theories about what they believe is best, and let us know your trials, and results. Both good and bad. IN this way, we can continue to learn more.

Right now Rachel (MsJinkzd) has a sale on RR for $2 each. She's a member of TPT, has an excellent reputation and it's a good price.

I over sold on my mixed rilis and am now waiting for my colony to build up again. Perhaps by November.

Aquabid also has RR for sale. I personally stay away from those ads that say BR/BV as to me it is evidence that a seller doesn't know the difference...but then again, there are some that swear up and down there is no difference- so make up your own mind.

 

[Duck5003]

I'm in the process of setting up my new shrimp/fish room, so once that is done i will have room for a lot more tanks.

At this time, the only RR i have are ones i have been working on crossing PFR's with Snowballs. I am two generations in and so far what i want to happen, is going well (knocks on wood). So i dont want to use these guys.

Now i do have DBV, some with some nice dark tissue. Until i get my hands on some RR, what i'm going to do is throw two of my nicer, mature DBV females in my PFR tank. Once they berry, seperate them and we'll see what happens with the first generation, if anything. Really just something to try while i gather more shrimp and tanks

This is not the approach i would prefer, with red typically fading out in the BV line but i'll be interested to see what happens with it for now. The only reason is, when crossing snowball and PFR I have gotten some really cool shrimp so far, so i'm hoping for the same type of effect with DBV and PFR.

Thanks for setting all this up Bryce! I'm really looking forward to what we can all come up with. Happy shrimping!

 

[mosspearl]

Thanks for the explanation! Shrimp genetics are all new to me, but I'm here to learn.

I'm patient, so I'll wait until I've got some extra bucks and either pick some up from Rachel or you when the time is right (unless someone else wants to trade for plants... otherwise I'll be setting up an RAOK soon...I'm seriously getting overrun). Don't think I want to chance on AB.

Sounds like it may be best to leave my BV out of the equation.

 

[PatriotP]

I think ill start with some red rilis get them going then introduce others, has anyone tried introducing carbon rilis? I kno they have some black but blue as well!

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

I was playing around with the same idea, P. The unknown factor for me is if the rili gene is located at the same loci. If not, then wilds are thrown.

If so, then the question becomes if there is a single dominant color gene or multiples.

 

[mosspearl]

Shrimp make rabbits seem easy. All we had to deal with were agouti vs self genes (basically 4 variations of each), and if they were complicated by spots, Dutch, harlequin or hidden by white. This is going to be fun.

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

Great to have your knowledge of rabbit genetics brought to the table! I have experience with mice and rat genetics myself, but with shrimp I'm lost! LOL

 

[mosspearl]

Are there any known alleles for shrimp? Any known crosses that produce reliable results that we can track?

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

I do not know of any, and I have been researching/breeding for a while now. If anybody does know any, it would be great to hear.

There used to be some info at http://shrimpsider.wordpress.com/tag/kumak-shrimp/ but it was taken down.

kumakshrimp.com is a great place to start understanding the ideas of color.

 

[mosspearl]

Looks like great info if I can figure out how to translate it.

I found this discussion on white shrimp where Kumak talks briefly about the red and blue pigments on rilis. May or may not help or make sense to us newbies. http://www.mondocaridine.com/web/forum/52-esperto-allevatore/12292-kumak-shrimp--snow-white.html

 

[Soothing Shrimp]

Basically I think he's saying that you can create a better quality red hood/tail by breeding with pfr.

Which is true. I've done that myself. However after that you have to cull cull cull to get back to a high grade rili quality again.

He's also saying that if you leave blue tissue to breed randomly with blue tissue, it will eventually degenerate to clear. That's why you need to breed the best to best.

 

[mosspearl]

So the trick seems to be how to keep the high quality red characteristics and keep the blue from degenerating, since it seems to cancel itself out. Hmmm.