Bacteria bloom? Tannins? Algae? I have no idea..

5981 Views 9 Replies 6 Participants Last post by longgonedaddy, Feb 7, 2017

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Discussion Starter · Feb 5, 2017

I've had 5 or so tanks over the years, and none have ever had this problem with cloudy water. I've had "pea soup" in another tank before but it was really green and thick and you couldn't even see through it. This is just murky/cloudy.

Does anyone have any idea what is going on and what I can do about it? I've tried Purigen and multiple water changes. I've also taken out the wood and just added more filter floss to my filter (National Geographic CF80 which is actually an Eheim Ecco Pro 2236). I'm considering buying a canister filter with UV bulb and/or dosing Acurel, Seachem Clarity, or Dr. Tim's Clear Up.

As for the tank, it is 54 gallons. I set it up last year and put ADA Aquasoil in, along with dragon stone rocks that I've had in another tank without issue. I also added some wood that I think leached tannin for a long time, and still does. The wood also had some white fungus on it that took weeks/months to get rid of. During this whole time, the water has always been cloudy and brown. I then went out of town for 10 days, and came back to a tank full of cyanobacteria (blue green algae), staghorn algae, and green spot algae on the tank. I still get some green spot algae on the glass but that is about it.

About 1 week ago, I added my 2 green neons, 4 neon tetras, to the tank. I then added Dr. Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria and about 35 green neons.

The fish, snails, and shrimp seem to be okay. I use water softener tapwater with Seachem Prime (didn't have any issues with this in my 7 gallon cube). I did a 40% water change 2 days ago (along with removing the wood). Here are my water parameters:

pH 8.0
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrites 0 ppm
Nitrates 0-5 ppm (can't tell for sure according to the chart)

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longgonedaddy

· #2 · Feb 6, 2017

It's not tannins. The water stays transparent, just stained like tea, when tannins are present.

Tha second pic looks green. Algae bloom?

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fishman922

· #3 · Feb 6, 2017

I would guess it to be either a bacteria bloom (Did you disturb the substrate recently?) or an algae bloom. I would agree with @longgonedaddy that the second pic would make it seem like an algae bloom.
You can pickup a UV light by itself for cheaper than a whole new canister filter i am fairly sure. Most lights by themselves have a lower flow which = more effective. Really though some water changes (25-50% every couple days) and adjusting what ever is the underlying cause is probably better than the UV light. UV light's are great for some band aid fixes but will not solve the underlying problem, I have one on my canister filter and I rarely use it. Once you get rid of floating algae it only turns into something worse that water changes will not fix.
I am suspicious of those ammonia nitrite and nitrate readings, in the case of an algae or a bacteria bloom something must be out of wack... Unless you disturbed the substrate.

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AbbeysDad

· #4 · Feb 6, 2017

Way out of balance - bacteria bloom + algae bloom. I wonder about your water softener as it's generally not good to use softened water from many/most water softeners. Anyway to use 'other' water?

If you're going in the direction of a UV sterilizer, as mentioned, a stand-alone sterilizer would be far less expensive and potentially more effective than a new canister filter with one built in. (I've never owned one or have seen a real need).

I have Marineland's fairly new Magnum Internal Polishing Filter - with the micron filter and 1/2 cup of diatomaceous earth, that water would be crystal clear in a couple of hours.

But also as mentioned, these are compensatory measures for an underlying problem such as water quality/chemistry, nutrient loading, lighting....

You might 'go dark' with little/no light and do several water changes...then [PERHAPS] reduce the intensity and/or photo period of your lighting.

Good Luck - keep us posted.

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volatile

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 6, 2017

longgonedaddy said:
It's not tannins. The water stays transparent, just stained like tea, when tannins are present.

Tha second pic looks green. Algae bloom?

It is not as green as the picture looks. The light and the iPhone make it look a little more green. The 2nd and 3rd picture were taken seconds apart, the only difference being that the light is on.

fishman922 said:
I would guess it to be either a bacteria bloom (Did you disturb the substrate recently?) or an algae bloom. I would agree with @longgonedaddy that the second pic would make it seem like an algae bloom.
You can pickup a UV light by itself for cheaper than a whole new canister filter i am fairly sure. Most lights by themselves have a lower flow which = more effective. Really though some water changes (25-50% every couple days) and adjusting what ever is the underlying cause is probably better than the UV light. UV light's are great for some band aid fixes but will not solve the underlying problem, I have one on my canister filter and I rarely use it. Once you get rid of floating algae it only turns into something worse that water changes will not fix.
I am suspicious of those ammonia nitrite and nitrate readings, in the case of an algae or a bacteria bloom something must be out of wack... Unless you disturbed the substrate.

I might have disturbed the substrate when I lifted the wood out of the aquarium? But the water was already cloudy before I moved the wood out. Do you or anyone have any experience with the AA Green Killing Machine? My API test kits are good until 2018, but I can try taking water samples from a different area of the tank next time. I've also cut down on feedings. I used to run all 6 bulbs for 5-6 hours, but then went down to 3 bulbs last week, and for the past 2-3 days have not turned on the lights.

AbbeysDad said:
Way out of balance - bacteria bloom + algae bloom. I wonder about your water softener as it's generally not good to use softened water from many/most water softeners. Anyway to use 'other' water?

If you're going in the direction of a UV sterilizer, as mentioned, a stand-alone sterilizer would be far less expensive and potentially more effective than a new canister filter with one built in. (I've never owned one or have seen a real need).

I have Marineland's fairly new Magnum Internal Polishing Filter - with the micron filter and 1/2 cup of diatomaceous earth, that water would be crystal clear in a couple of hours.

But also as mentioned, these are compensatory measures for an underlying problem such as water quality/chemistry, nutrient loading, lighting....

You might 'go dark' with little/no light and do several water changes...then [PERHAPS] reduce the intensity and/or photo period of your lighting.

Good Luck - keep us posted.

I can get water from the outside tap, but would prefer not to because of the hard water stains =( Also, I can't adjust the water temperature as easily if I use the outside tap water. But worst comes to worst, I may have to resort to this.

I forgot to mention that I previously had CO2 running for a week or 2 before that huge algae outbreak, but discontinued CO2 afterwards.

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Bananableps

· #6 · Feb 6, 2017

Why does your 54 gallon tank have aquasoil but no plants? Of course you have algae: who else is going to eat all those nutrients?
Plant heavily with fast growing stemmed plants and you should be fine.

In my experience, water changes don't do much to help stop cloudy water. Seems to take the same amount of time to clear up either way. Just let your tanks acclimate on their own: they're probably just adjusting to your discontinuation of CO2.

I poured some hydrogen peroxide in a newly established tank with green water recently. Cleared up overnight. Not sure how much I poured in, and I can't be certain that was the cause. It was potentially an amount that would be unsafe for fish (though there were no fish in this tank).

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Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 6, 2017

Bananableps said:
Why does your 54 gallon tank have aquasoil but no plants? Of course you have algae: who else is going to eat all those nutrients?
Plant heavily with fast growing stemmed plants and you should be fine.

The first picture is when I initially set it up. I was still deciding on layout, and waiting for plants to arrive. That's why it had no plants? I had it like this for weeks with no algae, only cloudy water.

The second and third pictures are what it looks like now, planted with hairgrass, hydrocotyle, java fern, and some stems in back that aren't surviving. :icon_conf

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jeffkrol

· #8 · Feb 6, 2017

Keeping the lights off won't help if it is a bacterial bloom (as I think it probably is).
Will go away on its own..hopefully. May take a week or 2...........

you need to keep aerating it (or keep the lights on so plants do it for you) though as you will start to consume oxygen

Have you monitored pH? i've found, in a limited sample of blooms) that a pH shift will cause this..
Some of the denitryfying bactera love a more alkaline tank and die when shifted to more acidic. Will take time to digest this biomass and reestablish more "viable" colonies.
BTW.. my own observations on limited data.. Not guaranteeing complete accuracy.
The First 30 Days | DrTim's Aquatics

Your plants are suffering from lack of light..

well noticed it is a NEW tank..so skip the above I guess..except to increase the light ..
Well new old tank..so above may apply.
Filter media is new or old??

and our pH is currently 8??

Somehow you just seem to be encouraging it..

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volatile

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 7, 2017

jeffkrol said:
Keeping the lights off won't help if it is a bacterial bloom (as I think it probably is).
Will go away on its own..hopefully. May take a week or 2...........

you need to keep aerating it (or keep the lights on so plants do it for you) though as you will start to consume oxygen

Have you monitored pH? i've found, in a limited sample of blooms) that a pH shift will cause this..
Some of the denitryfying bactera love a more alkaline tank and die when shifted to more acidic. Will take time to digest this biomass and reestablish more "viable" colonies.
BTW.. my own observations on limited data.. Not guaranteeing complete accuracy.
The First 30 Days | DrTim's Aquatics

Your plants are suffering from lack of light..

well noticed it is a NEW tank..so skip the above I guess..except to increase the light ..
Well new old tank..so above may apply.
Filter media is new or old??

and our pH is currently 8??

Somehow you just seem to be encouraging it..

The lights being off for 3 days seems to help a bit, as the green spot algae isn't rapidly coming back on my glass like it was previously. I'll turn the lights back on tomorrow, maybe for a 4 hour cycle and see how it goes. In the meantime, I've put on another HOB filter to aerate the surface some more, although in this whole time, my fish never come up to the surface to gasp for air.

I will try to take a water measurement again tomorrow and list the parameters. The filter media is new, along with the filter.

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longgonedaddy

· #10 · Feb 7, 2017

Well, if it's not green, then it's a bacterial bloom. Put up with it, change watr regularly, and let it run its course.

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Bacteria bloom? Tannins? Algae? I have no idea..

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