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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a spin off from the Life near GR thread.

Usually when I get there around 10:30-12 it's a mad house. We tease its like a bus pulls up in front of the building. Best selection early get the plants while they are hot...:icon_smil
 

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Hmmmm, well my apistos are happily feeding on all the cherry shrimp in the 10g I set up for them. I think it's gonna be hard to get them to eat non-live foods though. Starting some BBS today.

As for the pearls.....the male is constantly harassing the female. I mean, she is miserable. He won't leave her alone. Would it help to put another female or 2 in there, or should I seperate?
 

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Ernie, the apistos will eat anything, we had them greedily eating frozen brine and several different flake foods and pellets. If you want to breed the pearls, you would need to separate them but let the male see the female to get him in the mood and build a nest. If your desire is to just keep them, than you might want multiple females and lots of cover which generally isn't hard in a plant tank. You can also return them if you feel you don't have room for multiples

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Lost a coolie loach and over horseface loach over the period of a week.. hmmm not sure what is going on.. i have been doing more reading on plants and some books state to run an air stone at night when ph drops and co rises in a heavily planted tank. What do you think Otis?
 

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that's generally a trick used when adding co2. Maybe you should get up at 3 am and check your pH. It might be beneficial but it's also possible your loaches are getting too close to the fert tabs as well.
 

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I have hearrd of this......a guy at a local LFS claimed his overal fish deaths went up after keeping plants. I guess it could be a lack of oxygen if the tank is overstocked heavily. Do you have any TURBULENCE (not just movement) at the surface of the tank? That may help a lot.
 

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Our established plant tanks have the best survival rate of all. When adding a number of potted plants, a good water change is advisable to dilute fertilizers in the potting media. This is obviously relative to the amount of plants added, the size of the aquarium, and the fish load. You could also add in the factor of where the fish live in the aquarium. Bottom dwellers are likely to be more effected by these things.

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Very true,

I am starting to thing the loaches have to go at least the horseface and clowns. That would greatly reduce the fish load, possible plant nibbling, and those guys digging up some of the plants...hmmmm... I have had them for some time and really don't want to part with them but looks like it would be for the best. I have thought about adding an air stone at night on a timer to help keep O2 up. I do changes 2 times a week and don't want to increase that. I fert once a week with a single tab by each large plant or plant that is unhealthy looking. I still get a film on the surface especially after fert is added but it is lessend after the 2nd water change. I do from time to time run a air pipe threw my powerhead at the surface to break up the scum layer. I also added my modified loc line with two outputs to break up the surface but not to much to get ride of the CO.
 

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If your getting much of a film on the surface you should agitate it some more. That film cuts down on your gas exchange. You need co2 but your fish need o2 more. I have one walk-in client that was losing a few fish on a regular basis because he had the return from his fluval canister set too low in the water column. I got him to move it up to agitate the surface and he hasn't lost a fish since and has also added 4 discus.
 

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Our established plant tanks have the best survival rate of all.
doesn't suprise me :) Do you think it's because of the lack of NO2, NH4??

As for the co2/o2 issue...It's been my experience that if you aren't injecting co2 then the surface turbulence is actually a good thing -- for fish and plants the same. The fish definitely like it better, and as long as it's consistent then the plants will adapt as well. I typically have air bubblers on 24/7 in non-co2 tanks.

I've thought about it this way: CO2 is at a concentration in the air of 330 ppm. We strive in high tech injected tanks to achieve even 30ppm, which is pretty tough. It's a given fact that surface turbulence and air bubblers increase the transfer of gas from the water to the air...loss of co2...and also from the air to the water -- typically gain of o2.

I would argue that the water can actually gain co2 from the air. :icon_twis

Whatever co2 it might lose very well may be gained back, due to the fact that air itself has 330ppm co2 in the first place! Keep in mind, I've got absolutely zero evidence to prove this.

It just seems to me that the amount of co2 generated from fish respiration is probably so tiny that the water could pull the same amount back from the air.

In the end, the more o2 for the fish, the better. :)
 

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The main reason I believe we experience great success in plant tanks is the fact that excess waste is being used up and neutralized. I remember a couple of years ago when we had a four day power outage, our planted tanks showed virtually no effects. This wasn't a gas exchange issue because very little was happening. I believe it was because waste wasn't being allowed to poison the system. Another factor may be the selection of fish in a planted tank. They are generally not filled with big bruiser fish that put a heavy load on a system.

As a side note though, we lost very little fish even saltwater during that power outage because regular maintenance was always being done. In sytems where maintenance is lacking, situations like power outages will probably be more troublesome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
From 6-10 tabs at a time weekly with the sometimes every other week. I pulled the crpt in the front it just looks ugly. I put it in a smaller 10 gallon with great clay subsrate so we will see if it comes back. The new crypt that i added is showing signs of yellowed leafs the short swords are showing the small thing... I guess I will hold off and see what happens before pulling them. Thinking the loaches need a new home do you have any room Otis? Thinking the Horsefaces are the main culprits because of the digging they do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If your getting much of a film on the surface you should agitate it some more. That film cuts down on your gas exchange. You need co2 but your fish need o2 more. I have one walk-in client that was losing a few fish on a regular basis because he had the return from his fluval canister set too low in the water column. I got him to move it up to agitate the surface and he hasn't lost a fish since and has also added 4 discus.

i do have both returns at the surface and it keeps two holes open at all times. The return doesn't have much left after splitting. if I run an air stone or a tube to my powerhead I can break up the scum quickly but i know if hurts the CO.
 

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if I run an air stone or a tube to my powerhead I can break up the scum quickly but i know if hurts the CO.
I really don't think this would hurt the co2 and plants too much.

That many fert tabs seems like a lot, esp. with the "loach load" in there.
 

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We have room for your fish if you want to trade them in. Be patient with crypts when moving them. They are one of the quickest to react to environmental changes and it usually doesn't mean they are dying, it means they are adapting to their new digs. People ask me all of the time to identify their crypts which is almost an impossible task unless I grew them. The same plants will vary in color and height in different tanks. Plants that come from nurseries and then through shops are generally grown emersed with the top of the plant out of the water. They are obviously going to change when dunked under water. The good news is that they adapt better to that change than plants(from nurseries) that were growing submersed already. There will always be exceptions of course.

Have you tried running your powerhead with an airline buy also putting a single valve on the end so you can adjust the airflow? Don't be too afraid of eliminating co2 at the expense of good circulation.

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
i do run the tube with valve but found it doesn't seal to good. I have to sink the tube under the water to suck up some water to completely shut off the valve from sucking in air.

I will pack up the loaches and be in on Saturday after I get done plowing snow.
 
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