Anybody still prefer T8 to LED?

3121 Views 22 Replies 14 Participants Last post by jeffkrol, Dec 5, 2016

VinceIII

Discussion Starter · Oct 20, 2016

Just wondering if any of you still prefer a basic T8 fixture to LED. If so, what do you like about T8?

I'm hoping not to get a bunch of replies saying, "no, I prefer LED," or a debate about the two technologies. I'm simply hoping to hear from the T8 fans.

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

Leeatl

· #2 · Oct 21, 2016

I use T8s on all my tanks . I can get bulbs cheap online and they grow everything I have . I just use 6500k regular bulbs . I would like to get LED for the energy savings if nothing else , but just can not justify the cost right now . Too many other goodies I can buy as long as the T8s are working....lol I have mine in canopies and heat can be an issue . It is no problem on my 75 and 30 long but I have a weird shaped 25 that I had to add a PC fan to keep it at correct temp .

Reactions: 2

DanPlanted

· #3 · Oct 24, 2016

Have you seen the new Finnex Vivd coming out?

zackariah

· #4 · Oct 30, 2016

Can't find any info on the vivid. Do share

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MCHRKiller

· #5 · Oct 31, 2016

Quite a few T8 shop lights running in my fish room....they do a wonderful job growing lower light plants. Honestly I have seen better results "downgrading" to t8. For most folks not on a strict dosing and CO2 regimen IMO T8s are a better choice. I run 3xT8s on 75G tanks, 2xT8s on 55G tanks.

DennisSingh

· #6 · Oct 31, 2016

I love t8's, they're very "safe" when it comes to growing plants.

With high light plants all you need to do is lower them or add more, simple as that

With led's without a dimmer, for say the ray 2 very "dangerous" and much money invested if you do not know what you're doing.

Brolly33

· #7 · Nov 1, 2016

Leeatl said:
I use T8s on all my tanks . I can get bulbs cheap online and they grow everything I have . I just use 6500k regular bulbs . I would like to get LED for the energy savings if nothing else , but just can not justify the cost right now . Too many other goodies I can buy as long as the T8s are working....lol I have mine in canopies and heat can be an issue . It is no problem on my 75 and 30 long but I have a weird shaped 25 that I had to add a PC fan to keep it at correct temp .

Did anyone try the new LED linear T8 bulbs? I saw some in the Orange Box hardware store this week for less than $7 each. 17 watts each. 5000k.
I could not find any wavelength output charts on these.

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francoisfromfiji

· #8 · Nov 1, 2016

t-8 is stock lighting if I'm not mistaken, which can't grow live plants. I'm looking into t-5's as we speak!

MCHRKiller

· #9 · Nov 1, 2016

Brolly33 said:
Did anyone try the new LED linear T8 bulbs? I saw some in the Orange Box hardware store this week for less than $7 each. 17 watts each. 5000k.
I could not find any wavelength output charts on these.

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Interesting....those would be cheaper over the long term as you would probably not have to replace bulbs annually.

francoisfromfiji said:
t-8 is stock lighting if I'm not mistaken, which can't grow live plants. I'm looking into t-5's as we speak!Di

Not necessarily and even single tube T8s which often come with an aquarium can grow some plants. Those such as anubias, moss, and fern would do okay even in standard stock tank lighting. Many of us are running 2-3+ bulb T8 setups on 4ft aquariums to achieve the desired lighting intensity thus can grow lots of different plants.

Be careful with T5s...higher light intensity only increases your need for CO2 and nutrients. An unbalance in this will cause you nothing but algae problems. Sometimes more...really isnt better.

Reactions: 1

PlantedRich

· #10 · Nov 1, 2016

I use some T8 but overall it is very much a variety of what seems to work better here or there and I do not find enough value in LED to switch at this point. I find them to still be evolving and that often takes years to settle out. Meanwhile I can find lots of value in the "rejected" T8 fixtures! To cut the heating in the tank, I do move the ballast out of the fixture and place it on the rear of the canopy so that the heat goes into the room rather than the tank. But for the electrical usage, it takes a long time for a T8 to use enough more than a new LED fixture when comparing upfront as well as routine running cost. I'm not sure I get as wide spectrum on LED as I do on tube lights and plants do use a range of spectrum which LED may not do so well.
No precise measurements, just what I see in my tanks.

Reactions: 2

TwoTurtles

· #11 · Nov 2, 2016

I can't move to LED because I'm also keeping what my username suggests. They like to bask so the lights need to give out heat and uv. In other words I want the lights to be inefficient.

For a plant only tank, I can't see why you wouldn't use LEDs.

zackariah

· #12 · Nov 2, 2016

^ just a thought you could use led then get a heat pad.

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pmcarbrey

· #13 · Nov 2, 2016

zackariah said:
^ just a thought you could use led then get a heat pad.

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LED's do not put out enough UV for the turtles.

PlantedRich

· #14 · Nov 2, 2016

I do not find value enough in LED at this point so I have not looked very hard but have you checked the wavelength/spectrum of the LED you are considering. It would be my assumption that they might create a far more limited spectrum when only one type LED is used. That makes the plant designed fixtures use several types/colors of LED to get a better spread which the plants find in nature. I would expect a strip light at $7 to be a very limited range.
No facts, just theory and theory is often proven wrong.

zackariah

· #15 · Nov 2, 2016

pmcarbrey said:
LED's do not put out enough UV for the turtles.

There are some leds that due. They are used in the beauty salon industry to dry acrylic nails with uv light. I'm sure they are available for our applications. If they are not then looks like it's diy time.

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jeffkrol

· #16 · Nov 2, 2016 (Edited)

"only" $300..

https://cirrusledgrowlights.com/2016/05/19/check-out-the-new-reflex-uvb-led-grow-light/

UV-B LEd's aren't cheap..

UVA 400 nm - 320 nm
UVB 320 nm - 290 nm
UVC 290 nm - 100 nm

https://www.intl-lighttech.com/products/e305sl-uv-led
$30/mW

pmcarbrey

· #17 · Nov 3, 2016

zackariah said:
There are some leds that due. They are used in the beauty salon industry to dry acrylic nails with uv light. I'm sure they are available for our applications. If they are not then looks like it's diy time.

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They're ridiculously expensive, the only reason they have them in nail salons is the close proximity of your nails to the LEDS, we researched switching our tortoise display over to LEDS. For one tank the cost for making it ourselves was more expensive than the radions on our 8ft reef tanks, unfortunately there are no strong UV LED's of the same quality we see for other spectrums.

Reactions: 1

jeffkrol

· #18 · Nov 3, 2016 (Edited)

pmcarbrey said:
They're ridiculously expensive, the only reason they have them in nail salons is the close proximity of your nails to the LEDS, we researched switching our tortoise display over to LEDS. For one tank the cost for making it ourselves was more expensive than the radions on our 8ft reef tanks, unfortunately there are no strong UV LED's of the same quality we see for other spectrums.

Actually (and this is out of my league but a thought experiment) you would need only one of the diodes over a basking spot. Even possibly turned on by a proximity sensor..
At 305nm a bit out of the vitamin range (but not sure how the curve goes.) of 295nm.. but probably close enough.
https://www.intl-lighttech.com/sites/default/files/pdf/datasheet/UV-LED-SL-Datasheet-web.pdf
Beam angle is 120 degrees and since it is an LED, fairly tight coverage zone.. Consider it either a plus or minus.. depending on implementation..
I don't think the power output is too low of a singe diode. Diodes produce 1mW of output = 1000 micro-watts..

Example #1: If we looking to give our reptile 50uW/cm2 at its basking area and the 6.2 is off by 10%, it could in actuality be 45uW/cm2 or 55 uW/cm2. These are all GREAT numbers and will suffice.

http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/guidetolighting.htm
Real world unfortunate thing.. min 10 diode order..

and SMD so a bit of a complication..
20mA driver is a bit of a complication.. but doable..
6V constant voltage power supply w/ a 27 Ohm 1/8W resistor is sufficient to drive one diode.
https://www.intl-lighttech.com/products/e305sl-uv-led

so really a $30-$120 addition.. Granted $30/diode is not 10/$1 pricing but you don't need that much AFAICT

APOLOGIES for being o/t

and trying "math" @ 12" and 120 degrees you get 4.4micro-watts per cm squared..maybe..

Using 90 degree reflectors I suspect (barring absorption) that could be improved..
Anyways, 4.4 is better than zero..

Actually the CREE are a bit better in a sense.. min 5 and 270-280nm.. same power output
https://www.intl-lighttech.com/products/e275p-uv-led

at 295nm. This is the prime UVB needed to induce Vitamin D3 synthesis

Seems to be some slack here..
Ultraviolet light (UV) is broken down into 3 sub-categories (a.k.a.: spectrums) by wavelength:

1.) UV-A: 320 – 400 nm. This UV range is not thought to impact calcium metabolism in the body, but some reptiles can see into it so things may look more natural or ‘normal’ to them if you provide it. Most UV light in sunlight is UV-A.

2.) UV-B: 290 – 320 nm. This UV range provides the light that converts a precursor into Vitamin D3 in the skin, both of your turtle & yourself! It also causes sunburn. What’s more, we’ve learned there is a sub-set of this range, called D UV-B (a.k.a. ‘creative’ UV-B17), thought to provide most of the Vit. D3 conversion in our pets. We’ve recently learned some higher UV-B wavelengths are destructive rather than creative17.* Warning: our understanding of such matters is often based on research with animals other than turtles. We tend to ‘assume’ the same basic theory holds true for turtles.

3.) UV-C: 200 – 290 nm. This UV range is usually screened out by our atmosphere (especially ozone) & we are not exposed to it in natural sunlight (high altitudes may vary). It can damage DNA, cause blindness, & is used in UV-Sterilizers, which use a UV-C bulb inside a closed container (to protect you from it) to sterilize aquarium water passing through it.

forgive any gross errors.. not my forte.. turtles and Vitamins..

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Reactions: 1

TwoTurtles

· #19 · Nov 3, 2016

Wow, that is a really good bit of research jeffkrol. For me I don't think it's worth all that complexity and setup cost for a fairly modest saving in running cost but it would be a really interesting thing to do if I had the time and the faith in my diy skill.

Swee

· #20 · Nov 4, 2016

I just got some T8 free fixtures but haven't hung them yet. I like the LED because a 36" fixture will put out twice as much light as 2 36" standard T8's. Specifically Finnex Planted + and/or 24/7 (have both) but the new T5 HO single 36" beats them for output and also uses 39 watts vs the @25? Watts for the Finnex. I also think that it's too bright and look forward to trying the oldies with 5000k bulbs. On jack claim for easy height adjustment (basement tank so aesthetics don't matter as much)

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