[sunny3]

Hi, I am trying out this anoxic filteration. It basically converting ammonia/ammonium to nitrogen gas. Full nitrogen cycle.

 

[sunny3]

 

[sunny3]

This is my cabomba, grown in anoxic [low oxygen] filtered water. The water is crystal clear with 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites, and 10-15ppm nitrates, because I have about 300 +guppies in my 50gal tank. My nitrates will be zero if I reduced my guppies to about 10
Anoxic filteration has quite a lot of science in it. Basically it converts ammonia/ammonium to nitrite to nitrates and nitrogen gas. Nitrification occurs in the oxygen rich zones in the outer/upper part of the filter medium. As the water is drawn to the inner zones, oxygen levels drop as they are being used up by the outer nitrifying bacteria.Under very low oxygen levels, or anoxic conditions another group of bacteria will use the oxygen in the nitrates[NO3] converting the nitrates to nitrogen gas. Phosphates gets reduced as well. Phosphates are the main cause of the bba[black beard algae]
In my 40years of fish keeping, going from the basic ug to hang at the back filters, to the canisters filters, sump filters,to the optimum aquarium by dupla with the CO2 , ferric and micro nutrients, bio balls and trickle filters,to the dirted substrate by Diana Walstad, even the ADA stuff by Amano, not missing out the K1 media,I find the anoxic most fancinating and satisfying.
While most are expensive, the Walstad method was quite good but very limited to plants and very small fish population.
In the anoxic system I get max plants and alot of fish.

 

[Norfgal]

I watched a lot of videos on it and it seems so promising. Your cabomba look incredible, lush green and healthy . I always wanted to see a controlled tank where nitrates were high and say an established anoxic canister filter added to see the results. Because nitrates can come from so many sources and be reduced by so many methods I wasn't quite certain. I have a 55 quarantine tank that I wanted to try it in, but my 3 tanks nitrate levels stay relatively within normal range 5-20ppm due to weekly water changes. How old is your tank and how often do you do water changes? Was wondering if maintenance was decreased by this method. Good luck. Seems to be working wonderfully for you

 

[somewhatshocked]

I believe you mean there's quite a bit of pseudoscience around it. Mostly stemming from this guy who speaks in circles. He does more harm than good. People just believe him because he's spewing his nonsense on YouTube.

I've yet to see experiments that can be duplicated with controls. Just circular references, a lot of claims that aren't based in reality, indignation when anyone points out that the YouTube guy can't back up any of his claims.

This topic comes up here every once in a while. Encourage you to do a forum search or two to learn about the nitrogen cycle, how it's happening on every surface in your tank, Novak's hucksterism and the like.

 

[gjcarew]

This is my cabomba, grown in anoxic [low oxygen] filtered water. The water is crystal clear with 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites, and 10-15ppm nitrates, because I have about 300 +guppies in my 50gal tank. My nitrates will be zero if I reduced my guppies to about 10
Anoxic filteration has quite a lot of science in it. Basically it converts ammonia/ammonium to nitrite to nitrates and nitrogen gas. Nitrification occurs in the oxygen rich zones in the outer/upper part of the filter medium. As the water is drawn to the inner zones, oxygen levels drop as they are being used up by the outer nitrifying bacteria.Under very low oxygen levels, or anoxic conditions another group of bacteria will use the oxygen in the nitrates[NO3] converting the nitrates to nitrogen gas. Phosphates gets reduced as well. Phosphates are the main cause of the bba[black beard algae]
In my 40years of fish keeping, going from the basic ug to hang at the back filters, to the canisters filters, sump filters,to the optimum aquarium by dupla with the CO2 , ferric and micro nutrients, bio balls and trickle filters,to the dirted substrate by Diana Walstad, even the ADA stuff by Amano, not missing out the K1 media,I find the anoxic most fancinating and satisfying.
While most are expensive, the Walstad method was quite good but very limited to plants and very small fish population.
In the anoxic system I get max plants and alot of fish.

What science? If the anoxic filtration works, then remove all live plants and let us know what happens to ammonia/nitrite//nitrate and phosphate levels.

 

[Socratic monologue]

I'm not sure what sort of method is being suggested here, but anoxic filtration is used in SW aquarium keeping. I run a sulfur denitrator -- in an chamber filled with elemental sulfur, anoxic bacteria strip off and use the oxygen from the nitrate according to this equation: 2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3- → 3 N2 + 5 SO42- + 4 H+. No phosphate reduction with this method, but decent nitrate reduction as measured in the effluent.

Other methodologies add a food (available carbon) source, though I know less about the science at work there, but these are said to harness PO4 reducing bacteria as well.

 

[sunny3]

They already did that in the ISS[international space station] 2010 i think.
Biological filter capable of simultaneous nitrification and denitrification for Aquatic Habitat in International Space Station
H.Uemto, T.Shoji & S.Uchida.

All fish and no plants. Anoxic system

 

[sunny3]

Not pseudoscience . Often our bias throws us off.
I am looking into CEC as well.

Cation exchange capacity (CEC) is a measure of the soil's ability to hold positively charged ions. It is a very important soil property influencing soil structure stability, nutrient availability, soil pH and the soil's reaction to fertilisers and other ameliorants (Hazleton and Murphy 2007).

The careful selection of substrate can improve the cec of mu aquarium filtration.
ammonia/ammonium being +ve will be drawn into -ve charged substrate

 

[sunny3]

I watched a lot of videos on it and it seems so promising. Your cabomba look incredible, lush green and healthy . I always wanted to see a controlled tank where nitrates were high and say an established anoxic canister filter added to see the results. Because nitrates can come from so many sources and be reduced by so many methods I wasn't quite certain. I have a 55 quarantine tank that I wanted to try it in, but my 3 tanks nitrate levels stay relatively within normal range 5-20ppm due to weekly water changes. How old is your tank and how often do you do water changes? Was wondering if maintenance was decreased by this method. Good luck. Seems to be working wonderfully for you

I think i switched to anoxic probably a year and half plus.
10 litres harvested daily just for watering my potted garden plants.
Maintenance is cleaning glass panels, trim backs, replacing cleaned prefilters and liquid iron addition.

I also relooked into the ug filter. The important part is a very very slow water flow rate. A very fast flow rate will reduce the ug fliter into a giant prefilter sucking in all the debris and causing a crashdown. That is most likely why most hobbyists condemn the ug. but not themselves. Like most medication they kill you if you do not know what you are doing. lol

 

[sunny3]

I'm not sure what sort of method is being suggested here, but anoxic filtration is used in SW aquarium keeping. I run a sulfur denitrator -- in an chamber filled with elemental sulfur, anoxic bacteria strip off and use the oxygen from the nitrate according to this equation: 2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3- → 3 N2 + 5 SO42- + 4 H+. No phosphate reduction with this method, but decent nitrate reduction as measured in the effluent.

Other methodologies add a food (available carbon) source, though I know less about the science at work there, but these are said to harness PO4 reducing bacteria as well.

Take a look the the anoxic system used in the ISS for the tish experiment. They refined the system with alcohol as the food source whereas we hobbyists use fish waste here. The whole system in principle is similar with differences in that their components are tailored made, and you bet expensive

 

[sunny3]

What science? If the anoxic filtration works, then remove all live plants and let us know what happens to ammonia/nitrite//nitrate and phosphate levels.

Already did in the ISS[int space station], All fish no plants

 

[Socratic monologue]

They already did that in the ISS[international space station] 2010 i think.
Biological filter capable of simultaneous nitrification and denitrification for Aquatic Habitat in International Space Station
H.Uemto, T.Shoji & S.Uchida.

All fish and no plants. Anoxic system

Eh, we've been doing it in reefs since at least the 1990s.

This does sort of emphasize the point that it is most practical in space, or in SW tanks, where replacement water is at a premium. In the average FW planted tank, simple water changes are, well, simple.

 

[Socratic monologue]

Take a look the the anoxic system used in the ISS for the tish experiment. They refined the system with alcohol as the food source whereas we hobbyists use fish waste here. The whole system in principle is similar with differences in that their components are tailored made, and you bet expensive

Yes, that's analogous to carbon dosing in SW tanks. They use vinegar, or vodka, or biodegradable plastic beads.

 

[sunny3]

Eh, we've been doing it in reefs since at least the 1990s.

This does sort of emphasize the point that it is most practical in space, or in SW tanks, where replacement water is at a premium. In the average FW planted tank, simple water changes are, well, simple.

yes, if it is good why not, reducing major waterchanges. More stable water parameters

 

[sunny3]

Yes, that's analogous to carbon dosing in SW tanks. They use vinegar, or vodka, or biodegradable plastic beads.

Have tried sugar in small amount? May cause a bloom if it is too much lol

 

[Deanna]

I suggest that a few hours spent on searching this forum for "denitrification" would answer a lot of the questions. It has been explored ad nauseum. Dentrification can be done (I've done it) in a FW aquarium. However, it can only shave a relatively small amount of NO3 and, as someone mentioned, water changes dwarf denitrifiers in their ability to reduce nitrates (if that's what you really want to do in a planted tank). It's simply not worth the effort.

If you have nitrates so high that you need to reduce them, anoxic bacteria are not going to make much of a dent. You would be far better off looking at the source of the problem, which is likely organics issues and, if this is the source, the organics are going to contain a lot more problematic things than just nitrates.

 

[sunny3]

I suggest that a few hours spent on searching this forum for "denitrification" would answer a lot of the questions. It has been explored ad nauseum. Dentrification can be done (I've done it) in a FW aquarium. However, it can only shave a relatively small amount of NO3 and, as someone mentioned, water changes dwarf denitrifiers in their ability to reduce nitrates (if that's what you really want to do in a planted tank). It's simply not worth the effort.

If you have nitrates so high that you need to reduce them, anoxic bacteria are not going to make much of a dent. You would be far better off looking at the source of the problem, which is likely organics issues and, if this is the source, the organics are going to contain a lot more problematic things than just nitrates.

I know, but the fun is re tweaking like for eg the ug with an ultra slow water flow, plus the fact that it a potential large asset not fully utlised. Careful substrate selection wirh cec is something hobbyists missed.
Magnets to us are like ad nausem, until neodymium magnets and more super magnets on the way.
My point is can't we take the hobby a few notches higher instead of the same old loco, people are already on maglev.

 

[gjcarew]

I know, but the fun is re tweaking like for eg the ug with an ultra slow water flow, plus the fact that it a potential large asset not fully utlised. Careful substrate selection wirh cec is something hobbyists missed.
Magnets to us are like ad nausem, until neodymium magnets and more super magnets on the way.
My point is can't we take the hobby a few notches higher instead of the same old loco, people are already on maglev.

People have been using capped dirt substrates since at least the early 1900's. Aquasoils came on the scene like 25 years ago. You may be a bit behind the curve.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

 

[sunny3]

People have been using capped dirt substrates since at least the early 1900's. Aquasoils came on the scene like 25 years ago. You may be a bit behind the curve.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[What science? If the anoxic filtration works, then remove all live plants and let us know what happens to ammonia/nitrite//nitrate and phosphate levels.] Hmmm ISS curved

CEC, cation exchange capacity of substrate is what I am into.

capped sub and aquasoils are old loco