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Angels and Discus and Rams

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22K views 5 replies 4 participants last post by  discuspaul  
#1 ·
Just a thought, but is there anything wrong with keeping a pair of angels, a pair of discus, a some rummynose/cardinal tetras, and some sterbai corydoras in a large tank like a 75 or 55 gallon tank hooked up to a wet/dry sump? I might be watching too many youtube aquarium videos, but I don't see what's wrong with angelfish and discus in the same tank?
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
If you keep discus, which thrive in social groups, it should number no less than 5 or 6 as a group - otherwise you risk serious pecking order establishment issues, which can cause all kinds of problems (and keeping just one makes for a very lonely camper).

And be sure to introduce the discus first, give them time to become comfortable with their new environment, and then add the angels, which ideally should be smaller in size than the discus - otherwise the angels may outcompete with the discus for food, and possibly bully them.

P.S.

If you want to succeed at keeping discus, may I respectfully suggest you have a read through my 'Beginners Guide to Getting Started with Discus', located right here in the FISH section - just click on the only Sticky at the top- re: Articles.... - it'll be the 3rd link - 'Guide to Discus'.
 
#4 ·
Angels and Discus should be able to be kept together, as the angels can live in discus conditions just fine, but you are going to need a bigger tank than 75g. Keep in mind adult sizes of these fish, and healthy specimens will grow pretty quickly from the size you get at the shop.

Cichlids like to pair up, and will need space to establish territory. My single pair of angels in my 60g control half the tank now that they are adults. You would also need visual breaks throughout the tank so that the discus weren't harassed to bits if the angels spawn. You'd also have to be sure to offer food at both ends of the tank to be sure the discus got enough to eat.

Unless you can get a sorority of both to prevent breeding behavior, I think you would need a very large tank. As long as you can provide adequate space, you could probably make it work.
 
#5 ·
@discuspaul, thanks so much for the push to the sticky! I gave it a scan, and I'm glad that I did!

So does this mean that discus should only be kept in shoals(?) of 5+? I didn't know that they were social, and was basing my idea off of my conception of cichlids in general (i.e. a pair or just one is fine, and groups, aside from Rift lake cichlids, are frowned upon). Is this the case for even a single breeding pair? I.e. could I have 5 discus, raise them to maturity, then just keep a pair for breeding purchases? Or would the pair be stressed, the pair bond break down, and it just be a very stressed male and female fish?

I was envisioning a smaller tank like a 55 or 75 gallon display tank that could hold a pair of angels and a pair of discus (+other fish) that wouldn't breed unless I moved the different pairs of fish into a different tank/had a crude light diffusion divider put in place to limit aggression for the fish. If I couldn't do this due to the reasons stated above (i.e. more discus), would I just have to buy a tank that could handle "7" discus (the 5 discus and the 2 angelfish), since angelfish have a similar body plan and I'm assuming they have the same bioload as discus, plus the other fish? I can see why a 55 gallon wouldn't work, given that it's a lot of fish for that size, but would a 75 or an inverted 90 (48X24X18 rather than 48X18X24) work? I'm referencing seriouslyfish, and it says that angelfish (P. scalare, not altum) "only" get to 6" long and 8" tall, while discus are basically circles with a 3" radius (meaning 6" long given that I don't feed them too heavily during their growth periods), so aside from bioload being a problem, I'm not seeing space being quite as much of an issue given that both species are relatively sedate, slow moving fish.

I'm not seeing too much on diet, aside that land based meat seems to be very popular? I was under the impression that discus were more herbivorous (discus are carnivores? [Archive] - SimplyDiscus), like uaru's and severums as well...so wouldn't it be good to feed a diet high in vegetation (seaweed/spirulina gel/kelp/duckweed) as well as small amounts of microcrustaceans like mysis shrimp and amphipods?

Also, I'm not planning on making a tank like this soon. It was just a thought off the top of my head.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
Yes, discus should be kept in a group of no less than 5, preferably more, for the overall compatibility and limited aggression that larger numbers bring. You can keep just 2 discus if they are a proven mated pair. If you raise a larger group of discus and a pair forms - then fine you can allow nature to take it's course, but you can also segregate the pair in a smaller tank if you wish to raise the young from a spawning.

A 55 gallon tank is too small for what you're contemplating --- however, a 75 gal. may be sufficient if you keep only 5 discus and 2 angels in a lightly planted environment (or bare-bottom) with NO OTHER tank-mates to keep the bio-load relatively low, as necessary.
Both discus and angels require a lot of free swimming space, particularly in the adult stage.
Discus and Angels are not particularly fussy eaters, and will thrive on a varied diet to include high protein items such as freeze-dried blackworms, or bloodworms, or frozen shrimp, mysis, brine, or other --- and other fish/crustacean products, along with a mix of various types of pellets, flakes, and vegetative-based dry products.

While discus are not difficult to keep, one must adhere to a few important 'rules' for keeping them - most importantly, fresh clean water provided by large, frequent water changers & overall good tank cleanliness routines.

Hope this helps - but please do a lot more research before delving into discus, and avoid starting off with younger, smaller specimens of discus, which are less expensive but have lesser developed immune systems and are highly prone to stress and health issues of various kinds.

Here's a recap of important factors involved in being successful with discus-keeping :


D-I-S-C-U-S - 6 CARDINAL RULES FOR NEWBIES TO FOLLOW


First I'd just like to mention once again that discus are hardier than many people think, and are not difficult to keep, so long as one is prepared to accept and adhere to a few key practices that will provide the best chances of success with discus.

This listing is recorded more or less in order of importance:

1) - D - Do your homework well before delving into discus. Read and research all you can beforehand. Googling will certainly help, as well as spending a good deal of time reading the posts and threads on the simplydiscus.com forum, particularly the stickies in the 'Discus Basics for Beginners' section, which will provide you with much of the material you need to digest.

2) - I - Investigate and learn of the best sources to get your discus stock. Find those breeders &/or importers that are long time, well-experienced, responsible, reputable, and known to supply high quality, healthy, and well-shaped discus. Buy your discus from one of these sources in order to insure that you get off on the best footing possible.
This is the single, most important factor in succeeding with discus.
The simplydiscus.com forum has a sponsors section which lists a good number of high quality discus suppliers in North America. Check it out.

3) - S - Set up and plan to follow a strict regular routine of fresh water changes, tank wipe-downs and cleansing, vacuuming of wastes, and regular filter and media cleaning, changes, replacements, and maintenance. Be fully prepared for the kind of commitment it takes to produce and maintain the highest water quality and conditions that you can.

4) - C - Carefully consider the type of tank set up you start with. Make sure the tank size is ample enough to start with 5 or 6 discus. Don't be tempted to begin with a tank of less than 55 or 60 gallons, and don't try to justify going smaller by just getting 1, 2, 3, or 4 discus for cost or other reasons.
Wait till you have sufficient resources to get a proper-sized tank, and the suitable size and number of fish to insure continuing good health and harmonious discus sociability.
Do not start with small, undersized, very juvenile fish which have not yet developed a more mature immune system, are more demanding to raise properly, and much more prone to health problems and other issues. Get fish of at least 3.0" in size, preferably larger.

5) - U - Undertake to start off with a bare bottom tank, unless you're getting fully adult fish and have previous good experience with fish-keeping generally, and maintaining a planted tank in particular. If you must have some decor, limit yourself to a very thin sand substrate layer, and perhaps a piece of driftwood with just a couple of small plants attached, or one or two potted plants.
Once you gain several months' of experience getting to know your discus' traits & behavior, and your discus get larger, then you may proceed to an aqua-scaped environment, to possibly include some other species of compatible discus tank-mates. Feed a varied diet, several times a day, and learn which foods will achieve a nutritious diet, by researching.

6) - S - Simplify. Keep things as simple as you can to start. Don't complicate your start with discus, at least at first, by placing them in a heavily planted environment, using CO2 and a strict fertilization regime. Make sure your tank is fully cycled before adding the fish, and don't be tempted to alter or change the pH of your water, or modify your water conditions and parameters by using chemicals of any kind. No need to use RO water or adopt any other procedures that would tend to complicate what should be a simple start to your discus launch. If you plan on eventually having a community tank set-up, carefully research the species of other fish you'd like to keep with the discus, to insure they are able to withstand the higher discus temp of at least 82 F, and that they are fully compatible with discus.
And do a complete and proper quarantine before adding any such tank-mates to your discus tank.

Follow these 'rules', and there's little doubt you will succeed with discus !