The Planted Tank Forum banner

21 - 28 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
???????

Do you believe Excel promotes plant growth?

The amount of carbon provided is miniscule and almost the same as nothing.

Curious, what about it helps make plants grow?

Yes, excel has glutaraldehyde in it, which works as an algacide
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
683 Posts
???????

Do you believe Excel promotes plant growth?

The amount of carbon provided is miniscule and almost the same as nothing.

Curious, what about it helps make plants grow?

Yes, excel has glutaraldehyde in it, which works as an algacide
@Greggz point was that it doesnt do anything to help plants grow. He did agree that its an algaecide, but that only helps plants indirectly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,166 Posts
???????

Do you believe Excel promotes plant growth?

The amount of carbon provided is miniscule and almost the same as nothing.

Curious, what about it helps make plants grow?
The growth process affected by glut, as you know, is splattered everywhere on this forum and the web, so I don’t want to get into that, here. I think that everything I’m about to say is well known to you, so this is mainly for others that may not be aware.

The carbon contribution of Excel-like products is insignificant as compared to CO2 injection, but it is significant as compared to atmospheric contribution of carbon, and that is where it is useful as a growth-promoting supplement. It would be wasteful to use it in a high-tech tank to promote growth, unless using it purely as an algaecide. However, it does make a noticeable difference in a low-tech tank and particularly when light is a little too much for a low-tech setup.

Like everything else in this hobby, there are virtually no reliable studies proving this, but Seachem has done so, for those that are willing to believe that Seachem won’t say anything just to sell a product. Anecdotal ‘studies’ are too numerous to remember, but can be easily found throughout TPT. In my case, I used it daily when I had a low-tech setup and I went through many tests adding it, then withdrawing it and the plant growth/health response to each cycle was repeatable and noticeable.

As far as using it as an algaecide, I have found it to be useful only against red algae (hair-type algae, including BBA). Although I only use it with a rare outbreak of red algae, due to process upsets, using it at 1-2ml/gal, one time, wipes out any of this type of algae, but you should do some precationary preparation in advance.

AFAIK, the only plants that may be damaged by Excel are Anacharis (Egeria/Elodia), Vals, Duckweed and Marimo moss balls (which are a form of algae). These plants can be trained to use it if adapted slowly by not doing the recommended “initial” weekly dose and then just half-dosing every other day, gradually building up to recommended levels. Vals, for example, will initially melt and then re-grow fully acclimated to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,538 Posts
The carbon contribution of Excel-like products is insignificant as compared to CO2 injection, but it is significant as compared to atmospheric contribution of carbon
Significant? Can you quantify that?

I know Tom Barr investigated this quite a long time ago, and the conclusion was the the amount of Carbon being added is miniscule and about the same as dosing nothing at all. I'll try to find the link or ask Tom for it.

As to damaging plants, too much Excel can weaken any plant. The issue is people overdose hoping to help the tank and exactly the opposite can happen. I've even seen people dip plants directly into Excel and are surprised when they melt. It kills things. That's what it is designed for.

But like you said, this has been debated many times over, and neither one of us are likely to change many minds. I don't believe it has any real benefit, while others do.

I will say if folks use it, just use if sparingly or you could be doing more harm than good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,568 Posts
...The carbon contribution of Excel-like products is insignificant as compared to CO2 injection, but it is significant as compared to atmospheric contribution of carbon, and that is where it is useful as a growth-promoting supplement. It would be wasteful to use it in a high-tech tank to promote growth, unless using it purely as an algaecide...
My personal belief and having used Excel in low-tech is that it can help increase growth, but not by providing carbon. I think it simply "cleanses" things and makes it easier for some plants to uptake nutrients on the leaf surface. We all know it's not co2 and it hasn't been shown anywhere that the plant is up-taking a useful form of carbon. I honestly think in many cases, just better maintenance/light mgmt will do the same thing.

I never understood the dipping process for getting rid of algae. The existing leaves mean very little, the algae will grow in the tank anyway if conditions are right. You need to grow new leaves anyway, so by dipping your just making it that much harder for the plant to rebound. So I agree with @Greggz there, as well as the chance of over-dosing it, or making some half-a$$ cocktail with excel to fight algae. Many people with small tanks are the ones not using co2 and the likelihood of overdosing is much greater.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,166 Posts
Significant? Can you quantify that?

As to damaging plants, too much Excel can weaken any plant. The issue is people overdose hoping to help the tank and exactly the opposite can happen. I've even seen people dip plants directly into Excel and are surprised when they melt. It kills things. That's what it is designed for.

But like you said, this has been debated many times over, and neither one of us are likely to change many minds. I don't believe it has any real benefit, while others do. .
C'mon, now: nobody can quantify much of anything in this hobby, e.g.; can you quantify what is insignificant about it?

I do, basically, agree with both you and @Asteroid that, used improperly, glut may kill (never tried nor seen anyone that has made a connection to doing that). We could say that too much of just about anything we put in our tanks will kill. However, Seachem, like most other products, specifies safe Excel dosing for plant growth and I've used many, many, times the one-time 1-2ml dose with no observable effect upon the type of plants I've had or any fauna (including a few shrimp varieties). I've also had reports from members that have tried it, successfully, as well.

I also give a nod to @Asteroid's theory that glut may clean the leaves. However, I don't believe that, if it happens, it makes any difference in nutrient uptake. If it does clean leaves, I think it may more hinder algae's ability to build on the periphyton on the leaves, by impeding the periphyton.

Yes, glut is designed to kill germs. Alcohol is also used in hospitals for the same reason. Some humans consume alcohol (and would probably drink glut if it gave them a buzz). Too much peroxide? I've killed more fish with that approach than even CO2. Anyone here ever kill fish with too much CO2?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Since I already have co2 in my tank, I don’t see the need to use excel, unless it’s to kill algae. I’m doing intense cleanings in my tank everyday and getting rid of as much algae as possible, I don’t think I’ll need excel
 
21 - 28 of 28 Posts
Top