...Green Gain isn't for killing algae. You don't even sort of remotely use Green Gain like you would h202 for algae removal. That would be like saying you put water in the gas tank to drive a car.
Green Gain is specifically for use after trimming stem plants to help them recover better from the trimming process and maintain health. It contains Phytohormones and Organic acids that aid primarily in promoting plant growth and reducing the stress on plants after whatever cause that led to the plant not being healthy.
Have you done any background reading about the basics of plant Biology and hormones? You seem to assume that it is the Hormones, well, why not add just hormones then?
If I get 10x the amount for 5$ vs 18$, why would you buy it?
That's not a logical argument or a defense. Folks pick on me for 3-4$ difference in the glutaraldehyde cost, or scream I'm ripping them off over 1.13$ is ship cost differences.
18$? Maybe some are not cheap, but many are and will declare Cheap Jihad over a nickel. You can try and be a salesman all you want.
It's the SAME with ADA AS alone vs ADA AS +PS.
Unless you test each one separately, you cannot say who is doing what.
Jeff suggested the PS was part of the system, but it lacks any real nutrients other than NO3.
And few had done any substitutive test to see if there was any difference.
I followed that up with some test of each component using USDA protocol.
Now I can say what each offers.
Amano and ADA in general are very vague about what is in any of their products. Organic acids........peat can do that as well, amino acids, these get broken down fairly quick unless chelated, plants are not going to get that much out of them in small amounts like this. Minerals.......well, this could be ferts.....maybe PO4/Mg etc, which are often lean, too lean(dependent factor) in most ADA run routines. Depends on the tap, ADA's tap has about 0.5ppm of PO4. What's yours? KH? Mg?
etc..........
So adding that might be the effect you see, and why it had no effect in my cases. I hack back my tanks fairly aggressively, I sell a lot of Starougyne, I have a bottle of Super Thrive, which also has amino acids and organic acids(mostly to keep the bacteria and the solution reduced). I also have separate individual hormones, you can buy them as well.
Then you can test and see.
Instead of guessing who is doing what.
That is only mechanistic, we learn very little from that approach.
For the record - we've always seen a sizeable difference in stem plant longevity in situations where green gain was used vs. situations were it was not. I've even had long conversations with Luis Navarro were he specifically pointed out the differences he's noticed over the years, specifically to say "I don't know what it is that's in there, but I do know that the plants grow differently when I use them [green brighty step 1 & green gain]."
What do you honestly think grows plants?
Magic?
Come on......we can and many have added hormones to planted tanks with little effect going way way back 15 years worth on line. I'd like to slow plant growth down, just have it grow in nice and stay put. If you want more research type conditions, ask Tom Kane. I repeated a few of his older hormone studies on some plants, notably Crypts.
Maybe Texas water is just completely different from the rest of the world. If you perceive $18 as outrageously expensive on something that lasts 1-2 years with fairly consistent use, then you probably shouldn't be investing in a planted aquarium.
No, I should not waste $ on stuff that does not specifically grow plants.
If it is the minerals, there's a simple solution to that and it's much less than 18$, that much I think we can really clearly say.
Hormones DO NOT GROW PLANTS. They tell the plant organs what to do endogenously, but I've seen NO EVIDENCE, none, that suggest they have any effect when added to the water exogenously on growth of development in aquatic plants.
If you think I am incorrect, then you need to support it with some evidence and a well defined logically approach to illustrate it. Simply posting or talking louder or repeating yourself more than someone else is not going to work.
Nutrients, light and CO2/water. These grow plants.
Organic acids can make some nutrients a bit more available if the KH is high.
"Minerals" are nutrients, so it could very well be some PO4 or Mg etc.
It also might be something like ECA.
When we dosed PO4 years ago, we saw a strong response with respect to O2 production, an increase of 2ppm upon adding PO4 to a PO4 limited tank.
This took only 40 minutes etc. Slightly less with Mg limitation and dosing. About 4-8 hours and only 1 ppm.
When we hack the plants back, the freshly trimmed plants have more access and concentration to/of CO2(since it is rarely adjusted for between trimmings). This is due to less plant biomass, thus less demand. ADA and many other folks tend to run too lean on their nutrients to rule out limiting factors that lead to dependency. Further, few experiment of test with the individual components to know much of their effects. So most aquarist just guess, which teaches you little. After a trim, more current also occurs and more access to light on the lower stems. All these are positives for growth. These are also independent, the only dependency seems to be more the nutrients.
We can add peat and see, or amino acids and hormones(various products).
Then you have narrowed it down. Takes time and effort, not just following someone else's marketing mumbo, then you'll know, learn and be able to solve problems and create.
Cost: effort, time, value?
Priceless.
Why not send me 18$??:hihi:
I sell aquarium related stuff, wood, plants, do maintenance etc also.
Some things are worth paying for, I am questioning if this is really one of those things.
I'm not convinced and have not seen or read otherwise thus far.
What else ya got?
But I do think that Amano isn't the kind of person - or has the kind of image - that he would risk damaging by selling a completely hokum product just to rip people off. Some things may work better than others, and some may not be necessary at all. Depends on the plants, the tank, the keeper. In any case, I thought I'd show you some support...because at this point, regardless of the product in question, I admire your patience and your discretion in discussing this.
