Aeroponics - Bringing the future to our hobby

2609 Views 15 Replies 10 Participants Last post by nel, Apr 14, 2017

Sean W.

Discussion Starter · Apr 4, 2017 (Edited)

Whats going on guys, I am super excited by this and was hoping to share my ideas and thoughts with you.

I am a huge nerd, I read around 300+ tech related news articles a day. One story I came across spiked my interest and I have been in research mode for the last week.

It has to do with the revolution that has started in the agricultural industry. Its called "Aeroponics", and how its being used in vertical farms. Aeroponics is an evolution of hydroponics, its a grow enclosure that uses no dirt. The plants are suspended over a small body of water and pumps are used to spray the roots with nutrient rich water. The roots have access to much more oxygen, which makes the roots develop finer root structures which lets them absorb nutrients much more quickly, allowing the plant to grow much MUCH faster.

Vertical farms are huge warehouse size buildings that have racks and racks of plants stacked vertically, some racks are over 30' tall. This lets them completely control the environment, so they don't have to use any pesticides or herbicides. It also lets them grow year round, using up to 99% less water than a typical farm, they can grow orders of magnitude more plants in the same foot print of a standard farm. They also control the lighting, giving the plants the exact spectrum they need to grow efficiently. The farm as you know it is going away, and this is the future.

Check out this short video that explains aeroponics and vertical farming

My goal is to be able to grow plants more quickly, so they can be cheaper, so more people can afford the hobby.

The question is, how can we bring this technology to our hobby. I have some ideas rattling around in my brain, and I have come up with a proof of concept that I think im going to act on, and was looking for input.

It uses a 29 gallon or a 20 gallon tall tank (just for the proof of concept, the tank needs to be tall), light diffuser/ egg crate to hold the plants, the stem of the plant will be wrapped in rock wool which will put pressed into the light diffuser, allowing the stems to hang down. The water will have liquid ferts so its nutrient rich.... All the holes of the light diffuser will need to be plugged with rock wool, you don't want the water to splash on the leaves of the plants.

Heres my proof of concept drawing, looking forward to feedback

See less See more

Reactions: 5

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

clownplanted

· #2 · Apr 4, 2017

Sounds very interesting. I was actually looking at this newer concept the other day. When into a hydroponics store and told me about it. Seems like the wave of the future and will surely get implemented into our hobby. Just a matter of time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seattle_Aquarist

· #3 · Apr 4, 2017

Hi Sean W.,

An interesting idea, obviously you will need species that can be grown emersed (the APC Plantfinder is a good source of plants that can be grown emersed). You would want species with stronger stems that won't flop over. I would try to find species that have sufficient value / or are considered 'scarce' or 'rare' to justify the work and expense. Some method of avoiding the light getting to the reservoir area and causing algae would need to be considered.

Reactions: 2

Immortal1

· #4 · Apr 4, 2017

Very interesting idea Sean. As Seattle_Aquarist stated, you would likely have to start with some from of emersed plant.
As far as the original idea taking over farming I did have to chuckle a bit. Great idea - don't get me wrong. I was just laughing at trying to run a corn combine thru that place to harvest corn. Bear in mind where I live before you comment LOL

Sean W.

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 5, 2017 (Edited)

Seattle_Aquarist said:
Hi Sean W.,

An interesting idea, obviously you will need species that can be grown emersed (the APC Plantfinder is a good source of plants that can be grown emersed). You would want species with stronger stems that won't flop over. I would try to find species that have sufficient value / or are considered 'scarce' or 'rare' to justify the work and expense. Some method of avoiding the light getting to the reservoir area and causing algae would need to be considered.

As far as I know, the vast majority of plants can be grown emersed, off the top my my head, the only one I can think of that cant be grown emersed is Blyxa Japonica.

The holes that dont have plants in them will be plugged with rock wool, not to mention the canopy that the plants create should keep any algae from building up in the water.

Immortal1 said:
Very interesting idea Sean. As Seattle_Aquarist stated, you would likely have to start with some from of emersed plant.
As far as the original idea taking over farming I did have to chuckle a bit. Great idea - don't get me wrong. I was just laughing at trying to run a corn combine thru that place to harvest corn. Bear in mind where I live before you comment LOL

Its my understanding that the majority of corn is meal corn, a small percentage is grown for human consumption. Obviously vertical farming isn't a solution for all crops, but It can really make a difference for the crops that can benefit from the method. Not to mention, the farm can be in the middle of a city. I live in Los Angeles, any vegetables that I eat have been trucked in from up north, spending probably a week or so in transit before it reaches my table. Imagine the benefits of being able to move the farm to the middle of the city. The shipping process that used to take a week now only takes hours, from farm to table. Also the environmental benefits of not having to truck the crops from the field to the city, cutting down on the Carbon emissions from that trucking. Its genius, its the future.

See less See more

Reactions: 3

BettaBettas

· #6 · Apr 5, 2017 (Edited)

always thought things like this is cool, unfortunately its still expensive sometimes. Im currently doing aquaponics with 2 goldfish in a 30 gallon bucket and about sixty heads of lettuce. So far so good

Thanks for the very interesting post sean, glad this was made a topic. that's in a greenhouse btw. I do disagree with some things relating with plants being planted in the soil. Plants in soil are truly organic if you don't use pesticides like me, I live on a 30 acre farm, half wooded, half mended farmland. As I said in my greenhouse I do aquaponics because I know what I feed my fish, I know where they came from, I know where this lettuce for example is growing at and where its nutrients is coming from. on a diy level this idea is great and can be used (for example) by sean and many other hobbyists. on an industrial level this would be a so/so idea, as the water is being stored and pulled most likely from what location? that would pretty much be unknown and ignored. weather its in a big bucket or the ocean, people wouldn't know and that is my main concern with what I eat and it isn't payed attention to much. Farming itself is expensive, people think that if the grid goes out they can plant a couple seeds and live on that forver. sixty heads of lettuce will feed a family of four for little time maybe a month. I am a tradinitional farmer and enjoy sticking to the "natural ways" and I know that sounds hippie like which im not believe me, but its true. People need to pay attention to where they're products of which they eat originate from and come from all the way down to the roots. I eat fish crap when I eat that lettuce because that's what is making that grow, or taking part in it. When you grow tomatoes in the ground your eating dirt lol. When your growing thins in the air, well. Your eating water. I will admit this method doesn't provide as much flavor in the food itself as much as other methods would. another factor is that when plants grow in the ground, or on the earth. The soil is constantly being mended by the roots of the plants, and the soil is constantly being built up by the plants die off. such as leaves, dead roots, etc. If you (and this is again on industrial levels) used that idea in the video on an industrial level, they would most likely throw dead leaves if any away and burn them later on. The earth would have a con then.
Sorry this little write is zig zaging all over lol and there is probably some spelling errors.
that was the farm part of my opinion lol
I love your idea of doing this with emersed plants to me that's a fantastic idea and im saying you should do it all the way, plants in the hobby are weeds from a forest in Africa that we pay up to hundreds of bucks for to profit someone else. which I understand but they could be much cheaper, maybe sean youll become the next dennerle!? lol. Good luck on your journey of aeroponics(spelling?) with aquatic plants. Grow emersed grown ones though make sure they aren't submersed only. and make sure when you cut holes for the plants in the "whatever material your going to use to hold the plants" fits the plant size and rhizome or, base. also I suggest for this using horticulture lights, fits the purpose!

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Sean W.

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 5, 2017

BettaBettas said:
always thought things like this is cool, unfortunately its still expensive sometimes. Im currently doing aquaponics with 2 goldfish in a 30 gallon bucket and about sixty heads of lettuce. So far so good
Thanks for the very interesting post sean, glad this was made a topic. that's in a greenhouse btw. I do disagree with some things relating with plants being planted in the soil. Plants in soil are truly organic if you don't use pesticides like me, I live on a 30 acre farm, half wooded, half mended farmland. As I said in my greenhouse I do aquaponics because I know what I feed my fish, I know where they came from, I know where this lettuce for example is growing at and where its nutrients is coming from. on a diy level this idea is great and can be used (for example) by sean and many other hobbyists. on an industrial level this would be a so/so idea, as the water is being stored and pulled most likely from what location? that would pretty much be unknown and ignored. weather its in a big bucket or the ocean, people wouldn't know and that is my main concern with what I eat and it isn't payed attention to much. Farming itself is expensive, people think that if the grid goes out they can plant a couple seeds and live on that forver. sixty heads of lettuce will feed a family of four for little time maybe a month. I am a tradinitional farmer and enjoy sticking to the "natural ways" and I know that sounds hippie like which im not believe me, but its true. People need to pay attention to where they're products of which they eat originate from and come from all the way down to the roots. I eat fish crap when I eat that lettuce because that's what is making that grow, or taking part in it. When you grow tomatoes in the ground your eating dirt lol. When your growing thins in the air, well. Your eating water. I will admit this method doesn't provide as much flavor in the food itself as much as other methods would. another factor is that when plants grow in the ground, or on the earth. The soil is constantly being mended by the roots of the plants, and the soil is constantly being built up by the plants die off. such as leaves, dead roots, etc. If you (and this is again on industrial levels) used that idea in the video on an industrial level, they would most likely throw dead leaves if any away and burn them later on. The earth would have a con then.
Sorry this little write is zig zaging all over lol and there is probably some spelling errors.
that was the farm part of my opinion lol
I love your idea of doing this with emersed plants to me that's a fantastic idea and im saying you should do it all the way, plants in the hobby are weeds from a forest in Africa that we pay up to hundreds of bucks for to profit someone else. which I understand but they could be much cheaper, maybe sean youll become the next dennerle!? lol. Good luck on your journey of aeroponics(spelling?) with aquatic plants. Grow emersed grown ones though make sure they aren't submersed only. and make sure when you cut holes for the plants in the "whatever material your going to use to hold the plants" fits the plant size and rhizome or, base. also I suggest for this using horticulture lights, fits the purpose!

Thanks for the feedback Bettas. From my research, They actually use distilled water and put in the nutrients they need for the plants to thrive. Its a very controlled clean environment. Its more like a laboratory than a farm. Everything is sterile. Since the water usage is very minimal, they dont have to get their water from a lake or a reservoir, they can use the very purest form of water to keep everything controlled.

Olskule

· #8 · Apr 6, 2017

I saw a program on this very subject and it does look promising. However, one of the downsides is the cost of lighting, both the initial investment and the energy costs to operate the lights. This cuts deeply into any profit, not to mention the maintenance expenses of operating the lights in an unavoidably humid environment. Even with some of the new LED lights that are commercially made specifically for aquariums, the warranty is voided if a glass top is not used, so unprotected lights are obviously not the best idea. And once you add covered protection for the lights, then you have the expense of keeping that clear covering clean, otherwise you lose the efficiency of the lighting, thus wasting energy and money.

Another aspect to think about, especially in a facility located within a city (which you point to as being a "perfect" and convenient situation), is the quality of the air the plants are grown in. Cities aren't known for their air's high quality, and any pollutants in the air will undoubtedly collect in the water and on the exposed roots, only to be absorbed by the produce, and that's not what you want to injest. So then you have the expense of filtering the air within the warehouse.

While I do agree that it's something that should be looked into further, there are rarely any "perfect" solutions or alternatives for doing something in a new way. Mother Nature spent billions of years perfecting her processes, and farmers have spent thousands of years perfecting their adaptations of Nature's processes for their own needs, so I doubt a new, "perfect" way of doing the same things is going to come easy. Yes, there are many benefits, but there are still many issues that will have to be addressed before aeroponics becomes a cost-effective proposition, and until then, it will remain in a niche for those who are willing to pay extra for its positive attributes, but being a "green" (Earth-friendly) process is not one of them, considering the energy costs involved. Electricity isn't as "green" as people tend to think, since it involves some sort of pollution to create it, aside from hydroelectric plants, but even those involve polluting aspects to build and maintain them, not to mention the environmental disruption and damage of damming a river. (Dams can cause siesmic episodes as well.) Face it: only Nature operates perfectly balanced and continuous cycles and processes, and even then there are "costs" and consequences, but they usually occur on a geological timeframe.

Oh yeah, and their is the cost, both financially and environmentally, of providing the nutrients in the water, too. Everything man does is a trade-off, in some way or another.

Olskule

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Sean W.

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 6, 2017

Olskule said:
I saw a program on this very subject and it does look promising. However, one of the downsides is the cost of lighting, both the initial investment and the energy costs to operate the lights. This cuts deeply into any profit, not to mention the maintenance expenses of operating the lights in an unavoidably humid environment. Even with some of the new LED lights that are commercially made specifically for aquariums, the warranty is voided if a glass top is not used, so unprotected lights are obviously not the best idea. And once you add covered protection for the lights, then you have the expense of keeping that clear covering clean, otherwise you lose the efficiency of the lighting, thus wasting energy and money.

Another aspect to think about, especially in a facility located within a city (which you point to as being a "perfect" and convenient situation), is the quality of the air the plants are grown in. Cities aren't known for their air's high quality, and any pollutants in the air will undoubtedly collect in the water and on the exposed roots, only to be absorbed by the produce, and that's not what you want to injest. So then you have the expense of filtering the air within the warehouse.

While I do agree that it's something that should be looked into further, there are rarely any "perfect" solutions or alternatives for doing something in a new way. Mother Nature spent billions of years perfecting her processes, and farmers have spent thousands of years perfecting their adaptations of Nature's processes for their own needs, so I doubt a new, "perfect" way of doing the same things is going to come easy. Yes, there are many benefits, but there are still many issues that will have to be addressed before aeroponics becomes a cost-effective proposition, and until then, it will remain in a niche for those who are willing to pay extra for its positive attributes, but being a "green" (Earth-friendly) process is not one of them, considering the energy costs involved. Electricity isn't as "green" as people tend to think, since it involves some sort of pollution to create it, aside from hydroelectric plants, but even those involve polluting aspects to build and maintain them, not to mention the environmental disruption and damage of damming a river. (Dams can cause siesmic episodes as well.) Face it: only Nature operates perfectly balanced and continuous cycles and processes, and even then there are "costs" and consequences, but they usually occur on a geological timeframe.

Oh yeah, and their is the cost, both financially and environmentally, of providing the nutrients in the water, too. Everything man does is a trade-off, in some way or another.

Olskule

This is very educated input, and I appreciate the thoughts. You made some very good and interesting points.

In the first paragraph, I'm not sure if you are referring to a farm, or my design for an emersed grow enclosure. I did fail to mention that there will be a glass lid ont op of the 29 gallon tank to lock in humidity, reduce evaporation and protect the lights.

Air quality in cities is a consideration, like you mentioned the air would have to be filtered, adding the cost of more equipment and electricity.

It seems like ( and rightly so ) that your biggest objection is the electricity that is needed to run a vertical farm. My only rebuttal is that solar panels and storage batteries would need to be leveraged to their maximum potential. A VERY expensive solution, but a solution none the less. The buildings that these vertical farms are put in are massive, with lots of surface area on the roof to install solar panels. The down side tho is that you would need DOUBLE the amount of solar panels, half to run the farm during the day, and the other half to charge batteries to run the farm at night, which would be recharged during the day. This is an EXTREMELY expensive solution, but its the only thing I can think of. This is what would be needed to make a vertical farm " Green ". Tho one could bring up the argument of the environmental toll that mining the materials and manufacturing the panels and batteries has. My rebuttal to that would be we have only been making batteries and solar panels for a few decades, give it a century and mining/manufacturing batteries/panels will be much less detrimental to the environment.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

bigbadjon

· #10 · Apr 6, 2017

I don't care to argue about its cost effectiveness for mass market or environmental impact. I think your design is probably cost effective for the hobbyist and I would be interested in a quicker way to propagate plants for personal use. If I were to build one I would use a solid material for the shelf and drill it for individual pots and cut out the bottom to expose the roots. Plugging all those holes with rockwool just seems like it would be a mess. An opaque material may also block light from hitting the fertilized water and minimize nuisance algae.

KayakJimW

· #11 · Apr 8, 2017

I did a bit of aeroponic gardening back in the 90's. We used big Rubbermaid tubs and cut holes in the lids for round baskets. We'd start the baskets in hydro setups until the roots were exposed then move them over to the aero to grow out. Grow medium was lava rock balls for max air exchange. Instead of sprinkler heads you can just cap some tubing and poke a bunch of small holes in it and stick it to the walls. Our Aero veggies were bigger and grew quicker than hydro for sure.

[email protected]

· #12 · Apr 14, 2017

I can't believe no one has mentioned that some aquatic plants intake nutrients through the leaves via the water column, not just the roots. Aquatic plants have evolved to live underwater, and thats where they have to be.

This would defiantly work for terrestrial plants however.

clownplanted

· #13 · Apr 14, 2017

[email protected] said:
I can't believe no one has mentioned that some aquatic plants intake nutrients through the leaves via the water column, not just the roots. Aquatic plants have evolved to live underwater, and thats where they have to be.

This would defiantly work for terrestrial plants however.

Tell that to everyone that very successfully grows these "aquatic plants" emersed. Sure they would tell you that it cannot be done

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[email protected]

· #14 · Apr 14, 2017

clownplanted said:
Tell that to everyone that very successfully grows these "aquatic plants" emersed. Sure they would tell you that it cannot be done

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The grow the plants will all of the leaves/stalks above water?

KayakJimW

· #15 · Apr 14, 2017

[email protected] said:
I can't believe no one has mentioned that some aquatic plants intake nutrients through the leaves via the water column, not just the roots. Aquatic plants have evolved to live underwater, and thats where they have to be.

This would defiantly work for terrestrial plants however.

Here's one of many examples of aquatic plants grown emersed:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1068609-opares-emersed-culture-tank-fish-bowl-iwagumi.html

nel

· #16 · Apr 14, 2017

Most of so called "aquatic plants" normally grow on swamps, only part of them under mud/water. Some are seasonally emersed/submersed. Not many plants we have in our tanks grow submersed in nature. So yeah, aquatic plants have evolved to live underwater... we just don't grow many real aquatic plants.

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.