[Wö£fëñxXx]

Steve,
I have found/read this NFO somewhere along the way at one time or another, I will try to dig it up again, and post it just for you buddy! roud:
Just so you know, for instance, Fe, is not an easy thing to test for in such small amount's, so, you will be wise in my book, not to get to bound by number's/test kit reading's, I have found that most people that get into trouble with their tank's with algae's of one form or another are relying to much on a number/$10 test kit, while their +/-$1000-Tank/plant's suffer...

Thanks

Craig - I'm sure this is kidstuff for all you dry dosers out there, but would you mind posting the levels your recommended doses will raise the levels of a given macro/micro? For instance (I'll show my dry fert ignorance here)...

Tank's (1)
20~40gal
+/-1/4Tsp-KN03 3x a week - raises K by X ppm, N by Y ppm
+/-1/16+Tsp-KH2P04 3x aweek - raises K by X ppm, P by Y ppm
+/-1/16+Tsp K2S04 3x a week - raises K by X ppm
+/-5ml Trace 3x a week - unknown
+/-1-2ml Fe/Iron 3x a week - raises Fe by X ppm

What we are ultimately providing is macros/micros and having a corresponding understanding of the impact of the added would be great - at the very least an understanding of macro/micro uptake rates. Thanks. :icon_bigg

 

[scolley]

Thanks Craig. I think you just made a very good, and gentle, point. But to put a sharper point on it, I might rephrase is as "a little knowledge can get you in a lot of trouble". And we all know that's right. So, if I may, I'd like retract the request for the additional info. Here's why...

As a sticky to be used by the dry fert novice, this is a outstanding information tool as it stands now. You're knowledge of good dosing regimens is testified to, for all to see, in your tanks. They are among the very best! So I suspect that the info you are providing here should be taken at face value - just plain followed. For those seeking more knowledge, they can go seek it in places like the Fertilator or Chuck Gadd's mixing calculator, but they do that at the risk of straying from a tried and true path.

No, I think your sticky may best serve the dosing novice audience by keeping the info just as it is now. roud:

 

[BobWu]

Tank's (3)
For a 60~80gal
50%H20 change
+/-3/4Tsp KN03 3x a week
+/-1/4Tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/-1/8+Tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/-15ml Trace 3x a week
+/-4-8ml Fe/Iron 3x a week

1/4 Tsp Kh2po4 will add 3.46ppm Phosphate to 80 gallon of water, or 4.61ppm to 60 gallon. I think the EI recommended level is 1-3ppm???

 

[rrguymon]

When a tank is running good, clean, being dosed as prescribed, plant's are growing well, Iron/Fe is a luxury, not a necessity, although it does add a nice sparkle to the tank/plants, if you do not have iron but feel the need to dose it, just add more Trace :wink:

Thanks a bunch. I have some extra iron. I think I will give it a try. Great sticky by the way. Great place to start when doesing.


Rick

 

[Oqsy]

I know Sulphur is covered by the K2SO4 many use for dosing, but is it necessary to add it to the above items in conjunction with Flourish or TMG, or should "average" tapwater contain enough of sulphur to keep plants happy?

Does anyone have an answer to this? I'm dosing with what I believe to be a pretty darn good translation of the numbers from the first post in my 29, with the sulphur obviously being lower, and the K+ from KCl being a little fuzzy. Is there anything at all to the SO4, or is it just filler and an easy way to get more K+ into solution?

Oqsy

 

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Thank you Bob,

This why I have the +/- before each amount, for the number conscious individual that need's the crunch...
Those number's are in fact a good starting point, for any individual wanting to get a good feel for dosing the EI on his/her tank within the range's specified.

Dosing precise amount's/tweaking (+/-), based on volume specified within each tank/s size catagory is entirely up to said individual.

Personally I think that the EI recommended number of 1-3 is being modest, even 5ppm P04 is not bad, and the plant's do not seem to mind it either.
I have ran 5+ppm P04 on tank's to see the result's for myself, tested with cheap kit's mind you, but they were accurate enough.
I did not see any adverse effect with a P04 reading of 5ppm, although 2ppm, 3ppm is good, 4ppm or 5ppm, is not bad.
I will do some more testing on this and post result's but my finding's so far are, very clean plant's and tank with an average 3~5ppm P04 while also maintaining a moderate level of KN03, K+ & Trace's, with highlight, C02 injection.

Actually the only downside I found, was being a bit wasteful on the KH2P04 being dosed, and some have high level's of Phosphate in thier tap water, while it is still not recommended to use Phosphate sponges, remover's absorber's, etc.
However I am not recommending people run 5ppm P04 on their tank, the +/- is thier for my protection also that is for the individual that feel's the need to tweak his/her tank parameter's, those number's are average dosage's and a good starting point for people.

Maybe Tom will pop in and give his opinion on this also...

Tank's (3)
For a 60~80gal
50%H20 change
+/-3/4Tsp KN03 3x a week
+/-1/4Tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/-1/8+Tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/-15ml Trace 3x a week
+/-4-8ml Fe/Iron 3x a week

1/4 Tsp Kh2po4 will add 3.46ppm Phosphate to 80 gallon of water, or 4.61ppm to 60 gallon. I think the EI recommended level is 1-3ppm???

 

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Ogsy,
I will do my best to have all those answer's for you by this weekend, I have been digging around on the sulfur NFO and so far I have found nothing noting that it is a "needed" nutrient, I believe that therer is some "S" in dGh of our tap water, and Seachem root tabs also have lots of "S" in them.
I will continue to dig out this info for you.

How are you plant's resonding to the KCI, Fleet and greenlight you are providing for them?

Does anyone have an answer to this? I'm dosing with what I believe to be a pretty darn good translation of the numbers from the first post in my 29, with the sulphur obviously being lower, and the K+ from KCl being a little fuzzy. Is there anything at all to the SO4, or is it just filler and an easy way to get more K+ into solution?

Oqsy

 

[Wö£fëñxXx]

I added an RTF/Rich Text File, (wordpad) for you're downloading pleasure on main page at bottom, very handy for keeping track of dosing, especially if you have more than one tank, if you need it and want to use it, Please help yourself!

Thanks

 

[Georgiadawgger]

Thank you Bob,

This why I have the +/- before each amount, for the number conscious individual that need's the crunch...
Those number's are in fact a good starting point, for any individual wanting to get a good feel for dosing the EI on his/her tank within the range's specified.
Dosing precise amount's/tweaking, based on volume specified within each tank/s size catagory is entirely up the said individual

Personally I think that the EI recommended number of 1-3 is being modest, even 5ppm P04 is not bad, and the plant's do not seem to mind it either.
I have ran 5+ppm P04 on tank's to see the result's for myself, tested with cheap kit's mind you, but they were accurate enough.
I did not see any adverse effect with a P04 reading of 5ppm, although 2ppm, 3ppm is good, 4ppm or 5ppm, is not bad.
I will do some more testing on this and post result's but my finding's so far are, very clean plant's and tank with an average 3~5ppm P04 while also maintaining a moderate level of KN03, K+ & Trace's, with highlight, C02 injection.

Actually the only downside I found, was being a bit wasteful on the KH2P04 being dosed, and some have high level's of Phosphate in thier tap water, while it is still not recommended to use Phosphate sponges, remover's absorber's, etc.
However I am not recommending people run 5ppm P04 on their tank, the +/- is thier for my protection also that is for the individual that feel's the need to tweak his/her tank parameter's, those number's are average dosage's and a good starting point for people.

Maybe Tom will pop in and give his opinion on this also...

My tap water naturally has 5+ ppm PO4 and no issues...less dosing too

 

[GraFFix]

Just a quick question...

When you are dosing, I see most everything is 3X a week. Do you guys dose different things on different days? Or is it ok to just does everything at once? basically I dose but im not on any type of schedule. I do try to do it every other day, but having such a high light tank Ive been noticing I could be doing better with dosing.

Just wondering if there any any downsides to dosing all at once or alternating dosing for different days? Like trace's/Iron on monday, KN03 and P04 on tues, traces/iron wed..etc
I mean it would be simpler to just does everything at once 3x a week. But im not sure if thats the best plan...I downloaded that text file and will be using it to get a schedule down. hopefully the greenspot will go away once i get things organized

thanks for the post and the text file

 

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Dosing 3x a week is just a smart plan for providing everything the plant's need throughout the week, I will draw up an example of a plan that I myself and many others use, and post it on front page...
Dosing all at once, seems to create a small problem between Iron in Trace, or Fe, and Phosphate, so dosing all at once is not highly recommended, that is fine for a lowtech no C02 tank, but for highlight C02 injection, it seems to work best, doing odd even days on mAcro's/mIcro's..

Will have it drawn soon...

Thanks for the question!

Just a quick question...

When you are dosing, I see most everything is 3X a week. Do you guys dose different things on different days? Or is it ok to just does everything at once? basically I dose but im not on any type of schedule. I do try to do it every other day, but having such a high light tank Ive been noticing I could be doing better with dosing.

Just wondering if there any any downsides to dosing all at once or alternating dosing for different days? Like trace's/Iron on monday, KN03 and P04 on tues, traces/iron wed..etc
I mean it would be simpler to just does everything at once 3x a week. But im not sure if thats the best plan...I downloaded that text file and will be using it to get a schedule down. hopefully the greenspot will go away once i get things organized

thanks for the post and the text file

 

[jgc]

Personally I find a daily routine easier to keep than one that is every other day.

 

[rrguymon]

It looks like I have been under dosing traces? The sticky says to mix 1TBS of CSM+B in 250 ml of water. Greg Watson's web page says to mix 1TBS in 500 ml of water.

I have been adding 10 ml from the ratio GW recommened. Hmm I just mixed up some more solution with the more concentrated recipe. I will give it a try.

I have some Baby Tears and some Blyxa Japonica that are just haning on. They are not really growing or dieing just kind of dorment. I hope increasing the traces will get them going.

Rick

 

[fatbysl]

I was looking and i thought iron was a trace element? Looking at his dosing he has traces seperate with iron so what are traces then?


Here is what i dose for my 125 gal tank does this look like a good start.


1.5t of nitrates kno3 3x week
1.5t of mono potassium phosphate kh2p04 3x week
.5t of plantex csm+b plus iron 3x week

Is their something i need to add take away or does this look good? Also i quit dosing the iron right now because im having a bba outbreak so im dosing flourish excel right now to get rid of if 25ml everday.

 

[donaldbyrd]

can some one please help me with this

OK I have a 125 gallon tank heavily planted
Following this sticky I would dose:
kno3 1.5 tsp 3x wk
kh2po4 .5tsp 3x wk
k2so4 .25tsp 3x wk
trace 30mil 3x wk

OK here is where I am confused and need help
according to chuck's calculator this would give me
Nitrate 32.66 ppm I know I am shooting for 20-30 ppm so will back this down to 1.25 tsp which will give me 27.22ppm
Phosphate 10.62 it shows my target should be 1 ppm
Potassium 9.97 it shows target should be 20ppm

Am I missing something ?
From my reading I feel I have the KNO3 down but I am really confused on the Kh2po4 and k2so4


any help would be appreciated

 

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Ogsy I came across this, I hope it will give adequate answer's for you.

Nitrate (NO3) from KNO3 (Greenlight Stump Remover)

Greenlight brand stump remover is pure potassium nitrate (KNO3).

MWs: Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) = 101.1, NO3 = 62, therefore NO3 is 61% of KNO3

From consensus on the Aquatic Pants Mailing List it is recommended to use 10 ppm KNO3 twice per week.

10 ppm NO3 = 10 mg/l NO3. Since KNO3 is 61% NO3 you need 10/.61 = 16.4 mg/l of KNO3

In 10 gallons there are 3.77 x 10 = 37.7 liters

For 10 gallons you need 37.7x16.4 = 618 mg of KNO3

To get 10 ppm NO3 from KNO3 in each 10 gallons of water add .62 grams of KNO3.

So for 100 gallons add 6.2 grams KNO3

For 75 gallon tank

For 10 ppm in 66.2 gallons (75 gal tank) use .62x(66.2/10)= 4.1 grams of KNO3 (twice per week)

For 125 gallon tank

(105.7/66.2) x 4.1 g = 6.5 g

Use 6.5 grams of KNO3 twice per week for the 125 gallon tank.

Use 2 x (1/2) teaspoon (6.2 grams = 9.5 ppm) twice per week.

Phosphate from Fleet Enema

For Generic Fleet Enema (assume anhydrous)

MWs: Monobasic Sodium Phosphate (NaH2PO4) = 120, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 79% of NaH2PO4

Dibasic Sodium Phosphate (Na2HPO4) = 142, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 67% of Na2HPO4

Monobasic Sodium Phosphate (NaH2PO4) = 19 g, .79 x 19 = 15.01 g PO4

Dibasic Sodium Phosphate (Na2HPO4) = 7 g, .67 x 7 = 4.69 g PO4

Total PO4 is 19.7 g in 133 ml of water. Or 148 mg/ml

For Generic Fleet Enema (assume hydrated compounds)

MWs: Monobasic Sodium Phosphate (NaH2PO4·H20) = 138, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 69% of NaH2PO4·H20.

Dibasic Sodium Phosphate Na2HPO4·H20 = 160, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 59% of Na2HPO4·H20.

Monobasic Sodium Phosphate (NaH2PO4·H20) = 19 g, .69 x 19 = 13.11 g PO4

Dibasic Sodium Phosphate (Na2HPO4·H20) = 7 g, .59 x 7 = 4.13 g PO4

Total PO4 is 17.24 g in 133 ml of water. Or 130 mg/ml

According to John Fitch, Fleet says that the concentration of PO4 is 131.36 mg/ml

Potassium (K) from Muriate of Potash (KCl), 0-0-60


How much KCl is needed to make 5 ppm K in a 100 gallons of water?

KCL, Muriate of Potash. The bag says 0-0-60. It also says K2O=60%. MW of K=39.1, of O=16. K2O is 83.0% K. That means the bag is .6 x .83 = 49.8% K.

5 ppm = 5 mg/L

You have 100 gal x 3.77 = 377 liters

For 5 ppm K you need 5 x 377 mg K = 1885 mg K

1885 K/.498 = 3785 mg KCl

To raise K 5 ppm in 100 gallons add 3.9 grams of KCl.

Chemical Computations

I have a request. could someone convert the above table for use with the following macro sources? (these items are locally available for myself and many other hobbiests where the greg watson stuff would require s&h charges)

NO3: Green Light
P: Fleet
K: KCl powder / pellets

I know Sulphur is covered by the K2SO4 many use for dosing, but is it necessary to add it to the above items in conjunction with Flourish or TMG, or should "average" tapwater contain enough of sulphur to keep plants happy?

Oqsy

 

[Wö£fëñxXx]

I was looking and i thought iron was a trace element? Looking at his dosing he has traces seperate with iron so what are traces then?

They are both Trace, mIcro nutrient's,
Flourish, TMG, KB, Plantex CSM, CSM+B, CSM+Bw/ extra Iron, they all have iron, some more than other's, Flourish, is the crème de la crim of them all, then Plantex.
here is a comparison.

http://www.gpodio.com/fert_table.asp

Here is what i dose for my 125 gal tank does this look like a good start.


1.5t of nitrates kno3 3x week
1.5t of mono potassium phosphate kh2p04 3x week
.5t of plantex csm+b plus iron 3x week

Is their something i need to add take away or does this look good? Also i quit dosing the iron right now because im having a bba outbreak so im dosing flourish excel right now to get rid of if 25ml everday.

If BBA is growing, get that C02 up up up, pick it out, I will not lie to you, BBA is hard to rid, good conditions, and a steady dosing regime with lots of C02 will slow the growth way down, clean everything that has it, intake/exhaust tubes, hoses, heater, filter, substrate, clip off every leave that has it, bury infected substrate, no light= no growth, and so on.

1.5Tsp KH2P04 3x a week for a 125g is a bit much, use about 1/2Tsp 3x a week.

.5Tsp CSM+B is about 40ml, start with a little less than 1/2, roughly 3/8

 

[Wö£fëñxXx]

OK I have a 125 gallon tank heavily planted
Following this sticky I would dose:
kno3 1.5 tsp 3x wk
kh2po4 .5tsp 3x wk
k2so4 .25tsp 3x wk
trace 30mil 3x wk

OK here is where I am confused and need help
according to chuck's calculator this would give me
Nitrate 32.66 ppm I know I am shooting for 20-30 ppm so will back this down to 1.25 tsp which will give me 27.22ppm
Phosphate 10.62 it shows my target should be 1 ppm
Potassium 9.97 it shows target should be 20ppm

Am I missing something ?
From my reading I feel I have the KNO3 down but I am really confused on the Kh2po4 and k2so4


any help would be appreciated

For a heavy planted 125 you should be in good shape with that regime, Nitrates and Phosphate are more important than Potassium, also take into concideration that when dosing "K"N03 & "K"H2P04 the amount of Potassium (K+) that is going in from those two chemical's(K), target for K+ is in the 15 to 30 ppm range, and after looking at you're plan, I noticed I had a slight typo in the Potassium scale on that one set of tank's, I fixed it, Thank You
So you would actually want to dose close to a 1/2Tsp K2S04 3x week.

KN03 looks good, I wouldn't go any less than 1.25Tsp for a heavy plant mass high light C02 125g tank, unless you have a hefty bioload and feed hard, then you would still need to be alert, you do not want to run out of any nutrient at any time, especially nitrates, and especially during photo period, that would open you up to some mean BGA, its better to have a little more than a tad less, a little more will not hurt.

I personally make sure that my highligh C02 tank's have all the needed nutrient's in the water before the light's come on, I think it is just good practice.

Lastly, KH2P04, target is actually around 1 to 3, but I have ran it as high as 5+ppm with no adverse effect's.
Keep in mind we are dealing with variable's, plant uptake rate's, which I suspect change daily, up, down.
amount of food, bioload etc.
Try not to get to hung up on number's calculators and test kit's untill you learn to read the plant's.

Doing the above regime, will eliminate alot of variable's, especially if you start having some trouble along the way with various algae types, you will need good C02, it's a must, if you have high light, poor C02 will bring in alot of trouble by itself, so dosing enough KN03, KH2P04, K+, Trace,s then C02 is where you need to look.

I hope this help's you, any more question's along the way, we will leave the light on for ya
and keep us informed of how you're plant tank is running, and it's progress.

Thank's

 

[donaldbyrd]

will do and thanks this makes more sense now

 

[Carpet-Pond]

What a perfect sticky! Maybe after everyone who hasn't tried this regimen starts to, we can share results and compare how it works for those who use higher or lower co2 and lighting and how it can be adjusted in various ways if any. roud: