The Planted Tank Forum banner

81 - 100 of 107 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #81
Those are some very good looking plants there.

That Macranda is about as fat and sassy as I have seen it.

What exactly is the new diet??
Thanks Greggz.
It's EI daily and tons of root tabs right underneath the plant >:).
They both have similar diet. The erio gets more root tabs than the macrandra though.


The root tab mostly consists of Osmocote. The capsule size is #1.
One capsule can feed 2-4 Macrandra stems. I put in new capsule everytime I uproot and replanting the plant.
https://flic.kr/p/2k1BboS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,532 Posts
Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.

And now you have my curiosity with the root tabs.

Are you using them with all plants? Or just a select few?

And I imagine you do a lot of uprooting in your tank. Any issues with the Osmocote or the capsules coming up onto the substrate?

And thanks for letting me pester you with questions!:grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.

And now you have my curiosity with the root tabs.

Are you using them with all plants? Or just a select few?

And I imagine you do a lot of uprooting in your tank. Any issues with the Osmocote or the capsules coming up onto the substrate?

And thanks for letting me pester you with questions!:grin2:[/quote
@Greggz The underlying theme in your questions and answers is to make things normalized and universal to avoid confusion! I love that!! To me, some take x:y:z as literal and apply it without knowing WC schedules, source of the nutrients, effect of substrate, etc. That was definitely my case when I was watching some AGA lectures thinking, hey I dose very close to that guy but his results are definitely much better, then I realized there are different players at play. I still consider myself a noob and trying to learn more and more. So keep on asking/answering!!
@nntnam keep on posting. Your tank is doing great! Best of luck (not that you need it!).

Omid

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,532 Posts
The underlying theme in your questions and answers is to make things normalized and universal to avoid confusion! I love that!! To me, some take x:y:z as literal and apply it without knowing WC schedules, source of the nutrients, effect of substrate, etc.
Yeah that is exactly what I am trying to do. Both for myself and others. Clearly the results are very good, which always perks my interest.

And now if you want to get deeper down the rabbit hole, if you factor in accumulation over time that 9/3.5/9 between 80% water changes is about the same as about 6/2/6 at 50% water change.

So the point is this tanks dosing is much less than EI, and is more like light water column dosing with richly dosed substrate. Which is an interesting strategy and clearly working out well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #88 (Edited)
Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.

And now you have my curiosity with the root tabs.

Are you using them with all plants? Or just a select few?

And I imagine you do a lot of uprooting in your tank. Any issues with the Osmocote or the capsules coming up onto the substrate?

And thanks for letting me pester you with questions!:grin2:
I really don't mind the questions. Answering the questions helps me understand my own method even better. Please keep them coming.

Sorry if I caused any confusion. The whole time I was talking about my farm tank (a 40B). The waterchange and dosing schedule of my main tank (the 70gal Dutch) remain the same as shown in the front page.

https://flic.kr/p/2k7zDdx

The goal of farm tank is growing plants as fast as possible. So each species has their own diet. I put different amount of root tabs in the pots depending on the species.
Total weekly water dosing is N:p:K:Fe 18:7:18:0.7ppm. Dose daily.
WC: once per week. As much water as possible. So 90-95%?!
Light: 4 T5HO bulbs and 3 T8 bulbs.
Generally, the ludwigias mainly feed via the water column. They get root tabs sometimes to fatten up.
The rotalas and erios get lots of root tabs. These kind of plants loves being fed via the roots. They improve almost instantly.
The trick is the root tabs MUST contain ammonia/Urea to be effective. This is due to the fact that aquasoil can bind ammonia, PO4, K, Fe, but not NO3. Any NO3 in the substrate will leak right to the water column.

In the Dutch tank, due to the frequency of uprooting, I don't insert as much root tabs as the farm tank. Just enough to keep the soil rich. I also use them for super fast growing plants like the Pantanal when I feel the stems getting too thin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #89
If you don't mind me asking. What are those little red balls and the chocolate looking bits in your capsules?
Hi,

These are not commercial osmocote, which is the first generation. These are the 3rd gen, and are only sold for the farms/companies. The balls are much much smaller.
The off-color (in this case, red) balls are just used to color-code the product. Bags with some red balls may dissolve in 4-5 months. Blue may last 7-8 months. Brown, 9-10 months or something.

The chocolate pieces are clay-type fertilizer, similar to the one sold by ADA. They're IME more effective than the slow release ones like the osmocote. Probably due to higher ammonia concentration. I'm not sure. They're quite smelly when uprooting. Similar to mud or rotting stuff. But my erios love this type of root tabs.
They're also more expensive. The ones in the photo are just left-over from the last patch. I'm moving to full osmocote soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,052 Posts
Hi,

These are not commercial osmocote, which is the first generation. These are the 3rd gen, and are only sold for the farms/companies. The balls are much much smaller.
The off-color (in this case, red) balls are just used to color-code the product. Bags with some red balls may dissolve in 4-5 months. Blue may last 7-8 months. Brown, 9-10 months or something.

The chocolate pieces are clay-type fertilizer, similar to the one sold by ADA. They're IME more effective than the slow release ones like the osmocote. Probably due to higher ammonia concentration. I'm not sure. They're quite smelly when uprooting. Similar to mud or rotting stuff. But my erios love this type of root tabs.
They're also more expensive. The ones in the photo are just left-over from the last patch. I'm moving to full osmocote soon.
Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
@ nntnam thanks for explaining

I am so curious to learn the root feeding stuff like you are doing but it doesn't work for me practically.

I have osmocote and osmocote plus ( so i guess these are called as commercial osmocote per your last post). I use it very sparsely (not even one full gel cap like you)may be not more 2-3 pellets in my 120L tank. If i go beyond the limit says 5-6 pellets i see heavy green dust algea on the glass.

How do you manage using lot many osmocote capsules without any algae issues?So are these 3rd gen osmocote very slow at releasing nutrients ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #92
Just to clarify, that dosing is daily but you are performing 80% water change twice a week? If so, in terms most people use the dosing is half that, about 9/3.5/9 between water changes. Which is interesting to me, as I've been lowering mine and am at 8/3/12 right now.

And now you have my curiosity with the root tabs.

Are you using them with all plants? Or just a select few?

And I imagine you do a lot of uprooting in your tank. Any issues with the Osmocote or the capsules coming up onto the substrate?

And thanks for letting me pester you with questions!:grin2:[/quote
@Greggz The underlying theme in your questions and answers is to make things normalized and universal to avoid confusion! I love that!! To me, some take x:y:z as literal and apply it without knowing WC schedules, source of the nutrients, effect of substrate, etc. That was definitely my case when I was watching some AGA lectures thinking, hey I dose very close to that guy but his results are definitely much better, then I realized there are different players at play. I still consider myself a noob and trying to learn more and more. So keep on asking/answering!!
@nntnam keep on posting. Your tank is doing great! Best of luck (not that you need it!).

Omid

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
People often ignore Tom Barr when he talks about topics like substrate or O2 in a planted tank. Water dosing, CO2... get way more attention.
And it's right to do so. Once you master the water dosing or CO2, you can grow almost every species well. And your plant would probably look almost as good as the masters'.
But there's always room to improve. Substrate maintaining probably falls into the last bit of optimization, where almost-as-good becomes just-as-good.
Tom and Dennis (both master growers) actually have very similar substrate maintaining method.
Tom: removing muddy stuff in the substrate by WC after uprooting plants. Dennis: often vacuuming the substrate.
Tom regularly put new ada aquasoil, which is very rich in ammonia, in his tank. Dennis: often inserting osmocote in the substrate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
People often ignore Tom Barr when he talks about topics like substrate or O2 in a planted tank. Water dosing, CO2... get way more attention.

And it's right to do so. Once you master the water dosing or CO2, you can grow almost every species well. And your plant would probably look almost as good as the masters'.

But there's always room to improve. Substrate maintaining probably falls into the last bit of optimization, where almost-as-good becomes just-as-good.

Tom and Dennis (both master growers) actually have very similar substrate maintaining method.

Tom: removing muddy stuff in the substrate by WC after uprooting plants. Dennis: often vacuuming the substrate.

Tom regularly put new ada aquasoil, which is very rich in ammonia, in his tank. Dennis: often inserting osmocote in the substrate.
More and more I'm trying to move fertilization into the substrate vs water column (based on work done by pikez/Vin). Take aways from Tom Barr and Dennis Wong for me are great maintenance and plant husbandry while keeping the substrate rich (you are definitely in this category!). I understand the concept behind EI but rather have slow and steady growth if I could. I've struggled with algae so much in the past that it's not even funny! I need to learn more about the needs of certain plants before letting collectoritis cloud my judgement .

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #94
@ nntnam thanks for explaining

I am so curious to learn the root feeding stuff like you are doing but it doesn't work for me practically.

I have osmocote and osmocote plus ( so i guess these are called as commercial osmocote per your last post). I use it very sparsely (not even one full gel cap like you)may be not more 2-3 pellets in my 120L tank. If i go beyond the limit says 5-6 pellets i see heavy green dust algea on the glass.

How do you manage using lot many osmocote capsules without any algae issues?So are these 3rd gen osmocote very slow at releasing nutrients ?
Using root tabs is like playing with a double edged knife.
This is my fourth or fifth tries at the root tabs and I've got algae outbreak almost every time, regardless of the type of root tabs I used.
Unfortunately, there's no fixed formula for this.
But there's some useful tips I've found
- You need to insert it as deep as possible. Any leaking would be quickly consumed by the plants.
- It's more effective if used with aquasoil.
- Avoid using or use it very sparely under areas with high frequency of uprooting.
- Avoid using it near ammonia-sensitive species like Bucephalandra, Crypt, UG,...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,532 Posts
But there's always room to improve. Substrate maintaining probably falls into the last bit of optimization, where almost-as-good becomes just-as-good.
Tom and Dennis (both master growers) actually have very similar substrate maintaining method.
Tom: removing muddy stuff in the substrate by WC after uprooting plants. Dennis: often vacuuming the substrate.
Tom regularly put new ada aquasoil, which is very rich in ammonia, in his tank. Dennis: often inserting osmocote in the substrate.
I was actually talking with Dennis about Osmocote a while back. He said he uses them sparingly. He'll take a couple of individual balls and wrap the roots around them when replanting certain plants. Takes a lot of dedication, and demonstrates his attention to detail.

And both Tom and Dennis are meticulous about husbandry in general. As you know, general dosing is probably the least of the reasons for their success.

Have to say I really enjoy your input. Some really good stuff there. I still have to digest some of it.:wink2:

Haven't ordered any Osmocote yet........but I'm easily influenced so likely on the horizon.:grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #96
Just wanted to share a picture of the buce in my tank.

https://flic.kr/p/2kaNonE

There are two kinds of buce in this picture.
The one in the lower left has smaller, rounder leaves and has more blue in its color.
The brownie ghost has more red; hence, it looks more purple.
Both are pretty difficult to keep compared to other kinds of Buce/Annubias.
They're quite sensitive to ammonia.
Prone to BBA (and sometimes melting) when I do too much uprooting in the tank.
This is similar to the crypt. Flamingo.
They don't like unstable environment.
People always think they get BBA because of the high light but I think the number one cause is the ammonia spikes.
Sure, the high light intensity will cause more harm if the water parameters are unstable; but as long as you keep the tank clean and stable, they can grow well under pretty much any light intensity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #97
Trying a new combination of bulbs.
Removed an aquaflora and aquapink and replaced them with a tropic and a aquablue+.
This increases green and reduces red/blue intensity.

https://flic.kr/p/2kdebZx

Preparing for a new layout. I'm planning to use more colored plants while trying to maintaining good local and overall contrast.
It would be like a reversed Dutch-style where the green plants become the focal points.
Using more colored plants is also going to make the scape look darker. Adding more greenish bulbs is to counter this and make the green pop.

https://flic.kr/p/2kdaos7

https://flic.kr/p/2kdanhM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
התחברתי לאתר בכדי להגיב ולומר לך שיש לך יצירה מדהימה ממש יפה!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #100
Long time no update :D

Here is the tank today.

https://flic.kr/p/2koyKup

Not yet decided the final scape so I'm growing all the potential plants together to see how they look next to each others.

Trying red erio in the front. To be honest it doesn't look very good. The color seems to blend in with the aquasoil. Probably will replace it with the Eriocaulon sp. Matto Grosso.
Using the Barclaya longifolia as background plant for now. I will swap the mini myrio and the limno. rugosa to enhance the contrast in the back left corner of the tank. Too many big-leaved plants in that area.

New erio: minas 2010
https://flic.kr/p/2kozrFs

Finally some plant po*n
Pantanal showing striking color when it's growing well.
https://flic.kr/p/2kozi9x
 
81 - 100 of 107 Posts
Top