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Here you can see how the L. pilosa reddened after 5-6 days(the orange colored plant pair, vs the green one I just received in the front).
This would make a nice display plant in a row, or a large group, something few have done since it is semi slow growing and $$$.
Reminds me of the night plant succulent in gardens around here locally.


It's easily one of the nicest plants that came into the hobby last year. If it grew a little faster it would be perfect.
 

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Hydrothrix also will go to pot like that also, those are the only 2 plants I'm aware of that do this, it's not actually a seed, rather.... a turion.
The turions from these plants are very small.
...and then months later you will find it springing up all over your tank. It's a beautiful plant, but good luck getting rid of it if you decide to do so. :D
 

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This sump is easy to view, clean and use etc, but cost 100$.
That's cheap. Where pray tell did you find that price?

Have you tried the T5 HO offerings from ZooMed? They always had a good reputation for their T8 bulbs back in the day and their T5 HO bulbs look to be the same color offerings from back then. They're pretty cheap too at about $11.00 / bulb and they're also made in Ger-many (said like Jeremy Clarkson) just like the ATIs and Giesemanns.

I think you guys are on to something sticking one or two "blue" bulbs in there. I'm currently running 50/50 Giesemann Midday (my personal favorite white bulb, though I've not tried the starcoats yet) and Giesemann Aquaflora. The colors are really nice, but I might try putting a blue bulb over my foreground area for better penetration to the substrate.
 

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Got a second's CPR off ebay, you can find them used of off Reef Central, Craig's list etc. I look for large capacity and enough space to add plenty of sponge blocks, and a top that I can duct sealed easily. Brand really does not matter, construction, thickness and design does.

I place a red bub 1st, then a blue, then a white, pur's/Red sun's go in the middle somewhere since they are strange, then the same trick in the back.

You need 6-8 bulbs to do this decently, but you are not going to run full power or you do only for 3-4 hours. Then low light.

I have a set of Zoomed lights, the red Sun max plant bulbs are nicer than many others, the Aquafloras are nice also. I use the Zoomeds on the 180/70, but not this tank.
No, I'm definitely not running full power all day long. It's an ADA 90-P with an ATI Sunpower 4 x 39 watt fixture. I run 2 bulbs for 10 hours and all 4 bulbs for 3 hours. I was thinking of doing the blue bulb in the front, two whites and a red such as the Aqua Flora.

How big is that Elatine compared to gussonei? Is it the same size or still a little bigger?
 

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E. triandra is found here locally also in irrigation canals, but it's cheaper for me to buy some here vs the gas to drive up where I know it is at.
Did you ever try the local stuff? As I'm sure you well know often times the same species grows very differently from different localities. For instance, that Rotala 'Sunset' is almost certainly ramosior. I've collected ramosior here in MD several times and it grows green and stays green no matter what.

With 4 bulbs, I'd use 1 GE starcoat, 1 Zoomed plant, 1 ATI blue special, 1 Coralife Colormax. Reds on the outside, blues and white in the middle, the 10 hour cycle should have 1 red(Zoomed plant or the colormax) and the GE.

These are insanely bright fixtures. 2w/gal is like 5-6W/gal of old school easily.
Indeed they are. I had a Tek fixture before this one and I thought that was bright. The ATIs have much less spillage IMO. Since I already have 2 red and 2 white bulbs I may just swap 1 white for a blue special and do 4 different types when it's time to replace them all in 6 months or so. I like the idea of trying to hit the full wavelengths by picking bulbs that spike in slightly different ranges.
 

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I also got some Rotala sunset from Antbug that appeared stunted about 1/2 the size. I had some prior and it grew very well and nice. The person I got it from, Aaron, suggested it does not do well in rich water column and is picky. So Antbug's tap water is the same as mine, he doses the same as well, light is less and the CO2 likely also. So the test will quickly answer the question does R sunset grow well in rich water column ferts?
Antbug's plants are smaller, about 1/2 the size but still look nice.
A simple replacement test will see if it has anything to do with the tap, ferts etc.
I think you mentioned somewhere in this thread that you dose KNO3/KH2PO4- 2-3x a week at 15ppm/5ppm per dose. How much of this is used up by the next dose? In other words, if you test your water column on a given day what readings do you get?

How much trace do you dose? I suspect trace dosing is the bigger variable for dosing. Some plants need tons of traces to look their best.

I consider low water column ferts to be about 5 ppm or less of N and 1 ppm or less of P.

I am curious to see if it matters. The nice thing about doing it your way is no extra K is needed as there should be plenty in all of that KNO3 and KH2PO4.

It's too bad your KH isn't higher as I still stand by that being an important factor i.e. lower being better such as in yours and my tanks.
 

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There's also ADA AS as the sediment, so there's some reduction in uptake from the water column, but 45ppm a week of NO3 and 15ppm of PO4.........do you think ANY aquarium can use that much and drive it to zero?
This is a lot.

Do you think that going from say 15-20ppm to zero every 2-3 days is stable and condusive to good growth and stability?

I do not measure the NO3 and PO4 day to day, I do dose with known amounts that I measured prior with max uptake rates, these are roughly 4ppm per day. This does not factor in any sediment based ferts.
I wasn't inferring that the macro levels go to zero after one day. That would be nuts. It was just a question to see how much of those nutrients are used by the plants in a day. I'm not out for an argument man, just a discussion. :icon_cool

So is the theory behind having way more N and P then they need similar to Ca needs in that the availability must be higher than the need? I know Ca uptake is only something like 0.3 ppm / day, but you could never get away with levels in the water column that low.

I agree about the trace dosing, though the results I've seen are often more than subtle when it comes to red plants. A lot of people under-dose them IMO; especially iron.
 

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I'm getting good color on my R. 'Sunset' as well. I really wish I knew what the trick is with this plant. Hopefully this experiment will shed some light on the subject.
 

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However: Macarenia clavigera

THAT.............is the no#1 plant on my list.

Hop damn.
There are a lot of plants that I want that I'm not willing to risk my life to get. :D
 

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I am.

I do.

And I have.

Gators, biting flies, slippery rocks, skeeters, no see ums, ciggers, snakes, hillbillies with guns(often growing something), cliffs, water falls, frigid water, lightning...what a list.........

I'm more likely to killed driving, so I do not fear most things, but I hope not to die on my own:redface:

I've battled those too, save the hillbillies. The drug cartel is where I draw the line though. :D Try explaining you were after different plants than theirs.
 

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Here you can see the Rotala sunset differences.
A stem plant is like a history of growth and issues.

The lowest leaves are from Aaron's tank conditions, note the leaf size/length/width and internode length.

You see the squeezed middle part? Something happened in Antbug's tank.
See the top portion? That's my tank conditions.
Antbug and I have the same tap water source and dose roughly the same stuff, but the light/CO2 are different.



What this suggest are few things:

1. The plant grows well over a wide range of nutrient levels and locations of the nutrients, no surprises there.
2. Antbug might have a CO2 issue, but it could be the light also
3. Aaron's light might give insight to the light issue.
4. We have a light meter in the local club
5. CO2.........

This narrows the possible issues down pretty well to the bigger players: light/CO2.
I have not found any plants to date that do not follow this pattern.

Back to the R sunset.
The internodal lengths are pretty close in my tank as they are in Aarons, but only 1/3 rd the size in Antbug's.
Leaf length is 1/2, maybe less.
Width is also about 1/2.

Color was not really much different though.
Seems that might suggest light has less to do with it.
I initially had the plant in the rear behind the wood, but placed it out in the center this time. Both locations did well.
It does not seem a picky plant in that respect(light).
That's pretty cool to see the different stages it's gone through.

My light is an ATI 4 x 39 watt T5 fixture over an ADA 90-P 2 bulbs on for 10 hours and 4 bulbs on for 4 hours. I've grown it with only the 2 bulbs on for 10 hours for weeks at a time as well, albeit slower.

Our club just got a par meter. I'll have to borrow it sometime and report back.
 

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Did it grow better/same/worse under the 2 bulbs only? I'm thinking you had everything good except the co2, so the plant tried to grow quickly to keep up with your high lighting but the co2 wasn't up to snuff and stunted the plant. It looks like it tried to keep growing, but lacked the fuel to get to proper size.
It grew the same, well, just slower. I wasn't the one with the stunting issues.
 

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I wonder about temperature too. I keep my tanks as close to 75 degrees as possible. I've found that warmer than that is not necessary and a lot of plants don't like it.
 

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Speak of the devil.

I recently (2 days ago) bumped the temp up and the heater over shot , said 82F, actually was 87F. The new Red Phantoms had a touch of ick on one one or two, so I added MG and upped the temp some. I think it was about 78F or so. The 70 gal is 73-75F typically.

The E hydropiper started to brown out in a few patches.

In general, lower temps make every thing easier and the metabolism rates slow down. So you need less ferts, less CO2 etc.

IME, such tanks operate much easier with more wiggle room.
The tank is slowly heading down in temp today.
E. hydropiper is the only plant that seemed affected.

I thought maybe it was the algae stix that say and caused a localize anaerobic zone or something, but with 500+ shrimp and the other fish and plecos, not likely.

Temp is rarely discussed. 75 is a good temp to shoot for, if the fish can handle it without getting ick.

Once they recover, I'll knock the temp down a bit more, for now I'm going to lower it to 82F.

I'll post some pics of the E hydropiper response.
It's well known to be a cool water/habitat plant.

So I do not think folks will do well with Altums and Discus using it, but if it does okay at 82F, then perhaps.

I know it does pretty good at 78F.

Hydrothrix did better at lower temp and Lace plant does also, but I like them and need the 82F range for the south American species I like.
If you are big shrimp person, then the 75-72F range is great.
This is where we part ways a bit. I keep fish with my plants, not the other way around. If the fish don't like it they move on. :) It drives my wife a bit nuts, though I think she's used to it now. "Hey, where are those fish I liked?"

Regarding temp and the E. hydropiper that would explain my observations. The stuff I got from you a few weeks ago was very healthy, but now it is growing slightly larger leaves than it had when I got it from you. This could also be due to lighting, but ours is probably close enough to rule out that factor.
 

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When you get ready to dump the Pantanal, I might like a couple stems. It would be nice to see the R. mexicana 'red' in your tank. Ive never seen it grown good.For Syngonanthus sp. have you tried 'madiera' ? I just got a few beat up stems of this one and they are just starting to grow a bit. Do you have pics of your Cuphea? I have this one too and it grows REALLY slow and stays mostly green. Am I missing something here?
The Cuphea is a tricky plant. It seems to like soft water as it is very closely related to Rotala.
 

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I recall Ghori had it for a time way back when.........so folks in the GWAPA group should know the difference.

It's emergent growth is very different than H araguaia.
Very attractive emergent growth actually.
I had this one like 8 years ago from Ghori. It's absolutely huge when grown submersed. We're talking like 8" in diameter from leaf tip to leaf tip. It was cool, but just not suitable for most tanks.

Here it is in my tub pond one summer.

 

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How're you liking the CPR overflows? Any issues with loss of siphon? I'm adding a sump to my setup soon. I'm fedup with surface scum and excess equipment in the tank.
 

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Well, keep a spare aqualift pump and a repair kit handy.
I use pipe cleaners to ream the suction and use the tygon tubing so you can micro wave and clear any algae out.

Sumps are good if you minimize any loss CO2. This also includes the pre filter.
I'm adding some modifications to the prefilters coming up in the next 1-2 months.

You can also set the herbie/bean animal style set up on the over flow to reduce loss(but makes the noise go way down also). Some seal the prefilter box side also.

If the siphon loses, the tank has some amount of leeway and the sump runs dry if you set it up right. The siphon lost is gradual IME, it is something you'd catch fairly easily day to day.

If you leave for 2 weeks, maybe not.

Surface scum is just one issue, but they are much easier to clean, much higher O2, and much easier to add CO2 at a wide range of ppm's, the water evaporation lines are not an issue. All this means you can muck things up and not have nearly as many issues.
As long as it's a gradual maintenance thing and not a sudden loss of siphon I can handle that. It's still easier than taking apart a canister filter every two weeks because the flow has slowed down again.

Ideally I'd like to use one of these overflows from www.glass-holes.com, but I cannot get a straight answer as to whether my old style ADA 90-P has tempered or non-tempered sides.

I found a good deal on a used CPR CS90, Aqualifter pump and Pro Clear wet / dry so I'll try that out for now.
 

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Well, keep a spare aqualift pump and a repair kit handy.
I use pipe cleaners to ream the suction and use the tygon tubing so you can micro wave and clear any algae out.
Which tygon tubing do you use? There's about 12 different types.
 

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It happened to me too the other day. I had to reset my password.
 
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