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· Planted Tanker
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Hey Joe. Hopefully it is okay to post a link to a YT video but here is a 300+ par at substrate planted tank. Something new for you to experiment with.:smile2:
I purposefully left a space after the https: as I did not want to embed the video in the post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlkGbZDh23g&t=323s
Some of those plants have AMAZING colors. Between that and Dennis Wong's tanks, makes me wanna put the 6 bulb unit back on the Dutch!!

Dare I try it w/a month left until the AGA deadline?? Hmm...

And feel free to embed whatever you want here :)

Catching up on my favorite journal. Still a month behind on reading.
Get some popcorn ready because the next 5-6 pages is one helluva ride!

Glad to have you back in country. :)
 

· Planted Tanker
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Discussion Starter · #1,082 ·
Limnophila belem hitting the surface in the 50, starting to color up nice (did someone mention light?)



Light's playing a role but even down low is starting to get some purple. These were green all the way up just a week ago. I think the tank is becoming more balanced now, whatever that means...



75 jungle farm. Spot the new guys?



Spoiler alert: Pink flamingos. Got 5 in the mail today, 4 here and put one in the aquasoil tank



Here's the other one. Big color difference in the 50 without all the fancy bulbs. This is the same plant as the others, they just arrived today

 

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Some of those plants have AMAZING colors. Between that and Dennis Wong's tanks, makes me wanna put the 6 bulb unit back on the Dutch!!
I thought I was nuts for using 165~175 PAR, then I see Dennis going for 200, and now this guy going for 300+ PAR lmao

are you gonna try it on the aquasoil tank too for comparison?

Dare I try it w/a month left until the AGA deadline?? Hmm...
really high risk with such a short time frame imo
 

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Belem looks great. Had it before, but never looked as happy as that. Soil or light?

These were green all the way up just a week ago. I think the tank is becoming more balanced now, whatever that means...
Interesting you say that. The ebbs and flows of a tank and balance are a hard thing to define. But you know it when you see it. And I know it when I see this tank!

The difference in the pics of the Flamingo in different lights is worth having it's own discussion. That is a great illustration of the difference color of light can provide. Both to the human eye and camera.

And Pantanal looks like it has got back to a more normal growth pattern. I would guess settling in now.

Got the popcorn ready, bring on those next 5 to 6 pages!:wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,088 ·
Belem looks great. Had it before, but never looked as happy as that. Soil or light?

Interesting you say that. The ebbs and flows of a tank and balance are a hard thing to define. But you know it when you see it. And I know it when I see this tank!

The difference in the pics of the Flamingo in different lights is worth having it's own discussion. That is a great illustration of the difference color of light can provide. Both to the human eye and camera.

And Pantanal looks like it has got back to a more normal growth pattern. I would guess settling in now.

Got the popcorn ready, bring on those next 5 to 6 pages!:wink2:
Limno belem usually colors up like that and even more when its happy, so I dont think it's much to do with the soil (as far as being different from sand) Now, they are bigger in diameter with thicker stems than ever. That's probably soil...

Popcorn was for Vin who's still a month behind reading. I really hope the next 5 pages are smoother sailing!

Those crypts, if I just had the one 50 gal, I'd be very disappointed because they arent pink at all. But they are pink! They just need the right light to bring it out.

You can tell a difference in the AR too, how bright that stump in the 75 pic is compared to the ones in the 50
 

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Limno belem usually colors up like that and even more when its happy, so I dont think it's much to do with the soil (as far as being different from sand) Now, they are bigger in diameter with thicker stems than ever. That's probably soil...
Yeah that's really what I meant.

Those tops are large and happy. My tops never got nearly that large.

Will be interesting to see what others morph a bit on you.
 

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Wow those two Pantanal from the farm are fat and colorful.

Mine are doing well, but those two are a cut above.

Any change in micros/ferts in the farm? I upped my B and Pantanal seems to like it. Of course, could be something completely different. Curious what you think yours are liking. I'll post a pic of mine in my journal.

Nicely done.
 

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Some of those plants have AMAZING colors. Between that and Dennis Wong's tanks, makes me wanna put the 6 bulb unit back on the Dutch!!

Get some popcorn ready because the next 5-6 pages is one helluva ride!

Glad to have you back in country. :)

Hey Burr - finally caught up with all your posts. Whew and wow! Well, I'm glad you finally gave Aquasoil a shot. We've only been talking for about it for a few years. :) I thought it was a typo when you said 20 or 25 ppm PO4. I re-read it and it didn't seem like you were kidding. I'm glad you're doing this...and why hasn't someone written about adding 25 ppm phosphate to Aquasoil tanks before?

But from a big picture perspective, I think it is really important for anyone interested in this journal or my Dutch or Kill Tank journals to explore various methods of growing plants. Pushing yourself into unfamiliar places can only make you better at the game.

Having just come back from 6 weeks across most of Asia, I am scratching my head going 'Why do we grow plants so differently here in the US?' No other place fertilizes as much as we do. May be it's because this is the home of the Muscle Car, moon landing, and Texas. Arnold was my Governor. We do big or go home. I don't know the answer. Traveling has been an antidote to my fert dosing rut. I've never been more fearless about adding 25 ppm PO4, yet have never dosed less. (Burr, if you recall our conversation a few weeks before my departure, I was dosing 60 or 70 ppm nitrate, with accumulation near 100 ppm or so.) Well, I'm not doing that anymore.

FWIW, here is what I'm doing with my four plant tanks:

1. 180 Dutch-turned-farm tank: Aquasoil + 50% tap water + your traces dosed at 0.15 ppm daily + 15-6-20 dosed once after water change.

2. Kill Tank A: inert soil, tap water, dosing both macros and micros daily. Macros at 1.3-0.2-2 ppm and your custom traces at 0.075 daily.

3. Kill Tank B: this is a new set up. Same water and dosing as Kill Tank A, but the substrate is INSANE. Similar to what I described here: https://barrreport.com/threads/rotala-kill-tank.13975/page-39 where I have almost the entire bottom of the glass covered in Osmocote. Then covered it up with gypsum, potash, dolomite, 1/8 inch of pottery clay, generously sprinkled Azomite, then added an inch of mineralized top soil, then a quarter inch of Akadama clay, an inch of Controsoil + Fluval stratum mix. All topped with 2-3" of inert gravel. No fish, very high CO2. (Note my muscle car reference above)

4. Kill Tank C: described here: https://barrreport.com/threads/rotala-kill-tank.13975/page-39 and this tank gets no water changes or CO2. No ferts at all. Very low light. Everything is in the substrate.

Part of the reason why I set up Kill Tank B with crazy-rich substrate is from spending a few days hanging out with Dennis Wong in Singapore. Great guy. I saw his tank several times over a period of a month, so I also got a sense of the rate of growth. His farm tank that he posts pic of on Facebook has a very rich substarte. Not quite as crazy as mine, but very rich. He doses one or two ppm nitrate daily, but is generous with phosphate too. Without the extra P and the rich substrate, he wouldnt be able to grow many of the plants that he does if he strictly followed ADA's dosing plan. His tank is very bright, lean water-column, and clean. Besides less water column dosing, he has less flow than most American high tech tanks.

Speaking of bright, the 300-PAR video above is Kris Weinhold's tank. I stayed at his place when I spoke to GWAPA club a few months ago. Again, super nice guy. Highly skilled plant grower. His tank is even harder to imitate than Dennis'. Partly because he doesn't know the exact ppm of everything off the top of his head. He has arrived at a happy place with ferts/CO2/insane light. Like a master chef who knows how much of everything to add without measuring, Kris has found that balance. Call it the 'al dente' approach to ferts. It's only a 75, but there is enough there to keep you interested for several hours. I had so much fun just staring at that tank.

Anyway, really glad you're playing with Aquasoil.
 

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Having just come back from 6 weeks across most of Asia, I am scratching my head going 'Why do we grow plants so differently here in the US?' No other place fertilizes as much as we do. May be it's because this is the home of the Muscle Car, moon landing, and Texas. Arnold was my Governor. We do big or go home.
Vin good to see you back.

And I am looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the above. And Burr's as well.

I find these tanks fascinating, but can we duplicate them? Do we want to? Is it any easier? What plants like it? Which ones don't? We see the successes, what about the failures? What happens long term when soil is depleted? And I could probably think of a couple dozen more questions in just a few minutes.

Maybe your new kill tank will provide some enlightenment. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.
 

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'Why do we grow plants so differently here in the US?' No other place fertilizes as much as we do.
Just a thought. From the tanks I see online, I don't often see Asian growers trying to do all these red stem plants. They might have one or two accent reds but not half a tank. We love them here. I love them. What do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,098 · (Edited)
Any change in micros/ferts in the farm? I upped my B and Pantanal seems to like it. Of course, could be something completely different. Curious what you think yours are liking. I'll post a pic of mine in my journal.
Im up to .073 B and its been working really well for about 3 weeks. Over the past couple of months Ive slowly gone up from the .04s.

Some may recall a few months back I began raising macros from moderate levels to high. It was obvious everything loved the new higher levels, and several minor but nagging issues went away. But everything was not rosy

When I raised K from around 20 ppm per week up to 35 (in one whack), Hygrophila all breathed a sigh of relief. They'd clearly been starving for K - although interestingly enough there were never any pinhole symptoms, just small unhappy growth. But...in every tank Lud red tips puckered up almost immediately, other Ludwigias did the same to a lesser degree, a few Pogo kimberly stunted.

Lud reds have always been prone do this. Its never been a chronic issue just a common sign they arent happy for some reason. I never knew what caused it, whether it was one thing or multiple somethings. Used to especially happen to replanted tops, but they usually got right again in a few days.

Well after a couple of weeks these were only getting worse. Something was clearly off. The knee jerk reaction would've been to blame higher macros - high ferts are bad, mmkay! - but too many other species were loving it so I wasnt about to change back.

Time to put on my sleuthing cap and break out the trusty Mulder Chart of Nutrient Interactions:



What did I just raise? Macros. NO3 a few weeks before and K just recently.

What nutrients are most likely to be affected according to the chart? P, nope, raised that too. Mg was plenty and it doesnt stunt tips. This left B as the most likely suspect. And we all know low B will stunt tips.

So to sum it all up I started raising B and the situation quickly resolved.

Current recipe per dose, 4-5 x per week

Fe - .2
Mn - .05
B - .073
Zn - .05
Mo - .0015
Cu - .001 (there's a little in my tap)
Ni - .0005

Sounds like a real weekend worry :)
It keeps me awake at night...and Im only half joking. :)

Part of the reason why I set up Kill Tank B with crazy-rich substrate is from spending a few days hanging out with Dennis Wong in Singapore. Great guy. I saw his tank several times over a period of a month, so I also got a sense of the rate of growth. His farm tank that he posts pic of on Facebook has a very rich substarte. Not quite as crazy as mine, but very rich. He doses one or two ppm nitrate daily, but is generous with phosphate too. Without the extra P and the rich substrate, he wouldnt be able to grow many of the plants that he does if he strictly followed ADA's dosing plan. His tank is very bright, lean water-column, and clean. Besides less water column dosing, he has less flow than most American high tech tanks.

Anyway, really glad you're playing with Aquasoil.
Great post Vin. Looking forward to see how the new kill tanks run.

Im still dosing about 20 PO4 per week in the 50, that's down from 20-25 2-3x per week those first couple of weeks. Levels in the water are holding steady between 5 and 10 ppm. So the absorption has slowed down a good bit but its still happening

Ive been thinking a lot about rich substrates lately. Ive always discounted the benefits when it comes to fast growing stuff like Pantanal. How does nutrients at the roots help when it needs trimming every week, before roots have even had time to develop??

Makes sense right?

Over the past few weeks seeing plants grow in this aquasoil, Ive started using a lot more Osmocote+ in various other tanks. Picture gel-caps only 1/4 or 1/5 full, 2 or 3 per stem group. One of these per plants like Downoi instead of a single ball here and there like I'd been doing.

And sure enough, even the fast growing stuff clearly likes it! Why??

Then it occurred how we cut flowers from the garden and put them in a vase of water and they drink it right up. This is almost certainly an example active transport. What if cut stems in our aquariums take nutrients the same way?? Seems logical...

This might be common plant knowledge and Im just the last one to figure it out, but it's sort of been an eye opener recently
 

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Great post Joe.

Very interesting with the B. Same theory I have been going on with the Mulder's chart.

My K is even higher than yours via K2CO3, so I think I will add some to my current mix and maybe even bring it up higher than yours. Went from .045 to .055 and thinking I will go to .09 and see what happens.

And I'll have to try some more Osmocote+ with a couple of species. Maybe break up a group and only dose one. I have a bag full of them, but have never really used them. Have always been concerned with how much it might alter the water chemistry. Maybe that's a false concern, we'll see.

And thanks again for taking the time to experiment and document everything with your tank (Same to you Vin!). It certainly has been valuable and made my tank better, and I'm sure many others here as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,100 ·
Thanks Gregg. That'd be an easy experiment to make two groups and only give one of them O+. I'll be interested to see how it works for you.

Does anyone know what the deal is with Giesemann Super Floras? Im in the market for two 48" and cant find them anywhere. Everyone seems to be sold out of the 48" version.
 
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