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Now we are talking!
120 Gal Dutchy Freestyle - Now with 35% less water volume!
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Welp, the double dosing macros after water change experiment has come to a screeching halt due to a severe GDA outbreak in all 3 big tanks.
It's mostly on the glass. The 120 has it the worst, not surprising because it has the most light, the 75 is next and the 50 is a mere nuisance level. When everything is right there's none at all. Sometimes I'll go 2-3 weeks without even touching the front glass.
It started showing up on the front glass of the 120 about halfway through the first week. No big deal, just wiped it off at water change and turned the UVs on.
But the second week it got worse, much worse in the 120. By day 3 it was seriously blocking the view.
So day 5 I did an 80% WC on all three tanks. Dosed back the single amount of 10/1.5/10 and thats where Im staying for a while, 3x per week.
If you recall I'd dosed 1.5x after water changes for I think 3 weeks prior. Plants seemed to like it. Then I went to 2x. Plants seemed to like that too for the most part.
It has to be the culprit behind this GDA because its the only thing thats changed in recent weeks. I think after 2-3 weeks it finally built up to peak levels, which is too much
The only plant affected is the Lagenandra in the 120. Probably wind up just cutting these two older leaves off but Im gonna wait a few days and see if it clears up by itself. This plant is amazingly efficient at ridding itself of algae once the cause is dealt with.
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Wallichii in the 120 aint worried about much of anything, already at the surface again.
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Here's the pic from 9 days ago. That's why its best to start the tops out very short when you replant. If you start them out tall close to the sweet spot you'll be doing it every week
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Another interesting development is Hygrophila siamesis 53B in the 50 fattened up a lot over the past few weeks. Im thinking due to the higher macros, we'll see if the trend continues. Hard to tell from the pic but that one top is nearly 6" wide. Thats pretty big for the species, at least for me so far.
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It's mostly on the glass. The 120 has it the worst, not surprising because it has the most light, the 75 is next and the 50 is a mere nuisance level. When everything is right there's none at all. Sometimes I'll go 2-3 weeks without even touching the front glass.
It started showing up on the front glass of the 120 about halfway through the first week. No big deal, just wiped it off at water change and turned the UVs on.
But the second week it got worse, much worse in the 120. By day 3 it was seriously blocking the view.
So day 5 I did an 80% WC on all three tanks. Dosed back the single amount of 10/1.5/10 and thats where Im staying for a while, 3x per week.
If you recall I'd dosed 1.5x after water changes for I think 3 weeks prior. Plants seemed to like it. Then I went to 2x. Plants seemed to like that too for the most part.
It has to be the culprit behind this GDA because its the only thing thats changed in recent weeks. I think after 2-3 weeks it finally built up to peak levels, which is too much
The only plant affected is the Lagenandra in the 120. Probably wind up just cutting these two older leaves off but Im gonna wait a few days and see if it clears up by itself. This plant is amazingly efficient at ridding itself of algae once the cause is dealt with.
Wallichii in the 120 aint worried about much of anything, already at the surface again.
Here's the pic from 9 days ago. That's why its best to start the tops out very short when you replant. If you start them out tall close to the sweet spot you'll be doing it every week
Another interesting development is Hygrophila siamesis 53B in the 50 fattened up a lot over the past few weeks. Im thinking due to the higher macros, we'll see if the trend continues. Hard to tell from the pic but that one top is nearly 6" wide. Thats pretty big for the species, at least for me so far.
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FWIW I have spoken of 2x EI macros in the past.
I am guilty of water testing once per week, that's what led to the 2x EI macros.
This is also not consistent from week to week, trimming etc.. changes things a lot.
e.g. this week during trimming no macros at all, PO4 has been over 2 and holding it's own.
I am guilty of water testing once per week, that's what led to the 2x EI macros.
This is also not consistent from week to week, trimming etc.. changes things a lot.
e.g. this week during trimming no macros at all, PO4 has been over 2 and holding it's own.
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Posted this in the micro thread but Im adding it here too, pretty good stuff
One of the new 20 gal is producing some of the biggest and best looking Ludwigia sp reds Ive ever grown or seen.
The two or three biggest ones are damn near 3" wide
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The question was then asked what might be the difference between these new tanks and the others, why it's growing so big here
Same tap water, same type of lights, roughly the same PH drop from co2, same substrate,
Dosing has been slightly less. The 20s arent getting the double macro dose after water changes (the other tanks arent going to be either going forward but that's another story)
Flow is probably a little stronger, I switched from the powerhead sponges going through Ista reactors to Aquaclear 70 HOBs mounted on the ends. There are baffles on the outflow to cut down velocity, but there's no doubt more water volume is passing over these plants than in the other tanks
PAR is about 75 at the sub against the back wall, in the center its about 90. The 50 gal is in the 85-90 range. So not a whole lot of difference there. (For those who read the initial PAR readings in the 20s, it jumped up probably 10-15 points a few days later after the new bulbs "burned in"
There's a fresh batch of Osmocote+ in the substrate. I dont think this is much of a factor because the tops have been replanted twice. There hasnt been much tiime to make roots. These were started from small cut tops just a few inches tall. They've hit the surface twice already. (first week was a little rough) I replanted them for the second time last week and they didnt miss a beat. So if the O+ is having an effect on these particular plants, it's from whatever is leeching into the wc.
Personally I have no idea what the difference maker is. More flow and probably a higher concentration of everything in a small volume of water would be my guess.
But sometimes things just click fro no apparent reason. Surface film disappears, the water becomes crystal clear and the plant are all singing halleluja.
For the first couple of weeks there was a wicked diatom bloom, some GDA, and some sort of dark spot algae took over the older leaves of several plants. Everything was brand new starting out, new sand, filter sponges, everything. So there was zero bio-filter for a while.
I added 3 otos to each one and threw in a few guppy and platy fry. Did 2x weekly water changes for the first 3 weeks. All that algae started going away in week 2. Its been one of the easiest start ups ever really
One of the new 20 gal is producing some of the biggest and best looking Ludwigia sp reds Ive ever grown or seen.
The two or three biggest ones are damn near 3" wide
The question was then asked what might be the difference between these new tanks and the others, why it's growing so big here
Same tap water, same type of lights, roughly the same PH drop from co2, same substrate,
Dosing has been slightly less. The 20s arent getting the double macro dose after water changes (the other tanks arent going to be either going forward but that's another story)
Flow is probably a little stronger, I switched from the powerhead sponges going through Ista reactors to Aquaclear 70 HOBs mounted on the ends. There are baffles on the outflow to cut down velocity, but there's no doubt more water volume is passing over these plants than in the other tanks
PAR is about 75 at the sub against the back wall, in the center its about 90. The 50 gal is in the 85-90 range. So not a whole lot of difference there. (For those who read the initial PAR readings in the 20s, it jumped up probably 10-15 points a few days later after the new bulbs "burned in"
There's a fresh batch of Osmocote+ in the substrate. I dont think this is much of a factor because the tops have been replanted twice. There hasnt been much tiime to make roots. These were started from small cut tops just a few inches tall. They've hit the surface twice already. (first week was a little rough) I replanted them for the second time last week and they didnt miss a beat. So if the O+ is having an effect on these particular plants, it's from whatever is leeching into the wc.
Personally I have no idea what the difference maker is. More flow and probably a higher concentration of everything in a small volume of water would be my guess.
But sometimes things just click fro no apparent reason. Surface film disappears, the water becomes crystal clear and the plant are all singing halleluja.
For the first couple of weeks there was a wicked diatom bloom, some GDA, and some sort of dark spot algae took over the older leaves of several plants. Everything was brand new starting out, new sand, filter sponges, everything. So there was zero bio-filter for a while.
I added 3 otos to each one and threw in a few guppy and platy fry. Did 2x weekly water changes for the first 3 weeks. All that algae started going away in week 2. Its been one of the easiest start ups ever really
Very, very interesting Burr.
As you know, I just started front end loading macros with a 2x dose on water change day. Yesterday was just the second time. Same for me, plants seem to like it. Global pearling a good indication.
I'll be watching my glass for any unusual algae now. I'll be very interested to see what comes next.
As you know, I just started front end loading macros with a 2x dose on water change day. Yesterday was just the second time. Same for me, plants seem to like it. Global pearling a good indication.
I'll be watching my glass for any unusual algae now. I'll be very interested to see what comes next.
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Trim time!! 
Today's episode featuring Ludwigia sp red and Bacopa colorata
Before
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Pinch all the nice tops off, arrange in piles of short, med, and tall, scraps to the side for replanting elsewhere
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Repeat for colorata
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Toss all this ratty bottom stuff, good opportunity to remove unwanted biomass
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Suck out the leftover crud with a siphon hose, just lightly skimming the surface. Careful to avoid curious fish!
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Replant tops one by one, the Ludwigia sometimes two at a time.
Vois la
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Bacopa should now be good for a month or so. Colorata grows a lot slower than it's cousin, B caroliniana
The Ludwigia red will need doing again in 2-3 weeks. It can be just mowed once or twice leaving the stumps to come back. Each stump will put out several new ones and the group becomes nice and thick. After a couple mowing/repsrout cycles it's time to start over again with just tops.
Starting to hash out <yet another> plan for the scape.
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Some of these groups are just placeholders for the time being. Have a few species in mind to swap out. There are currently some contrast fails and a lot will depend on how certain things grow.
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Check out that sweet Crypt Vin gave me, brand new to the hobby - Cryptocoryne spiralis 'red tiger'. New leaves have a green stripe in the middle, older leaves are pinkish brown with dark striations.
Is this thing ballin or what?? Thanks Vin!!
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I invited a few old friends with a habit of breaking my heart back to the party. Just cant help myself. :icon_eek: This front right section will here fore be known as "Nemesis Corner"
Rotala sunsets. Those 4 little tops are growing pretty nice. Tops arernt perfect, a little gnarly, good size and diameter though
Syn giants have been in here maybe a week. Two or three smaller ones have been clamped up like that since they got here. Not sure what they're thinking. Others still looking pretty good. We'll see...
AR mini variegated is all new babies started over from the previous big ones. They were still too undulated to look worth a damn, definitely not good enough to be front and center. I auctioned them off 'as is' on FB. Gonna try one more round and see if they grow any better. If not something else is going right here.
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Fert update:
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Today's episode featuring Ludwigia sp red and Bacopa colorata
Before
Pinch all the nice tops off, arrange in piles of short, med, and tall, scraps to the side for replanting elsewhere
Repeat for colorata
Toss all this ratty bottom stuff, good opportunity to remove unwanted biomass
Suck out the leftover crud with a siphon hose, just lightly skimming the surface. Careful to avoid curious fish!
Replant tops one by one, the Ludwigia sometimes two at a time.
Vois la
Bacopa should now be good for a month or so. Colorata grows a lot slower than it's cousin, B caroliniana
The Ludwigia red will need doing again in 2-3 weeks. It can be just mowed once or twice leaving the stumps to come back. Each stump will put out several new ones and the group becomes nice and thick. After a couple mowing/repsrout cycles it's time to start over again with just tops.
Starting to hash out <yet another> plan for the scape.
Some of these groups are just placeholders for the time being. Have a few species in mind to swap out. There are currently some contrast fails and a lot will depend on how certain things grow.
Check out that sweet Crypt Vin gave me, brand new to the hobby - Cryptocoryne spiralis 'red tiger'. New leaves have a green stripe in the middle, older leaves are pinkish brown with dark striations.
Is this thing ballin or what?? Thanks Vin!!
I invited a few old friends with a habit of breaking my heart back to the party. Just cant help myself. :icon_eek: This front right section will here fore be known as "Nemesis Corner"
Rotala sunsets. Those 4 little tops are growing pretty nice. Tops arernt perfect, a little gnarly, good size and diameter though
Syn giants have been in here maybe a week. Two or three smaller ones have been clamped up like that since they got here. Not sure what they're thinking. Others still looking pretty good. We'll see...
AR mini variegated is all new babies started over from the previous big ones. They were still too undulated to look worth a damn, definitely not good enough to be front and center. I auctioned them off 'as is' on FB. Gonna try one more round and see if they grow any better. If not something else is going right here.
Fert update:
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i think i might want to try that bacopa colorata, i got bacopa red but its not really red its more brown.
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I read the first sentence and thought, Are you kidding me? But then I read the second part and though, Ah.. OK. I've never had the Colorata, but I know the normal one can grow out of the tank in just a few days. I love Bacopa. Hope to have the Colorata some day.
That's awesome. Never seen that one.Check out that sweet Crypt Vin gave me, brand new to the hobby - Cryptocoryne spiralis 'red tiger'. New leaves have a green stripe in the middle, older leaves are pinkish brown with dark striations.
Is this thing ballin or what?? Thanks Vin!!
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Im still very much trying to learn how to create depth and scale while not using too many species according Dutch guidelines. This 4' tank should have no more than 12-14 total species. For me this is a big challenge to say the least.
Here's some tentative thoughts and plans on where things are headed, using my highly sophisticated MS Paint skills (which I dont often reveal to just anyone!) Input is welcome
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1. Have a single species going all the way front to back. A true Dutch artist would use plain old Wisteria here. It'd be a great look, but Im not sure many true Dutch scapers are rolling with this much light either. Still Im tempted to try it.
2. Something tall leafy and green that doesnt get the size of a beach ball. Currently growing out some baby Nympoides taiwan, gonna try that next. If anyone has a line on Ottelia ulvifolia please let me know. That always looks good in pictures Ive seen.
3. Wallichii isnt the best background color to show off the new crypt. It's looking too good lately not to keep so the plan is move it behind the number 5 green
4. Thinking of replacing Penthorum with Lobelia small form. I really like that plant and its hard to beat for contrast and making a street. Will need to change the Clinopodium it if I do that. Penthourm is cool and all but damn it grows fast, and Im really just in the mood for something different
5. Combine Acmella and Ambulia into a single species. It would be an easy decision is Ambulia didnt grow so fast. Im literally chopping down a few stems twice a week, which is why the group looks so butchered now. Im just like why bother, lol. Acmella I think is extremely cool but it would take at least 100 stems to get the look needed here, maybe 200, especially for a group running sideways.
6. Not sure kimberly is the best look color-wise. A narrow line of Pantanals might work, but it would need to be distinctly slimmer than the Lud red group in order to not have a big look at me plant dead center. Acmella could be a candidate here. Need to find a way to keep that plant.
7. Mini aromatica isnt staying. it needs a bigger area for a nice bushy display, candidates for right here are Rotala indica, Clinopodium, Oldenlandia or Mini Myrio, something short and stemmy. Whatever winds up in area 1 will decide what goes in front of it.
8. Unless the AR becomes show worthy this will probably be all one green something. A big splathe of Syn giants would be nice, gotta see how it grows first. Lots of other options if it doesnt.
Here's some tentative thoughts and plans on where things are headed, using my highly sophisticated MS Paint skills (which I dont often reveal to just anyone!) Input is welcome
1. Have a single species going all the way front to back. A true Dutch artist would use plain old Wisteria here. It'd be a great look, but Im not sure many true Dutch scapers are rolling with this much light either. Still Im tempted to try it.
2. Something tall leafy and green that doesnt get the size of a beach ball. Currently growing out some baby Nympoides taiwan, gonna try that next. If anyone has a line on Ottelia ulvifolia please let me know. That always looks good in pictures Ive seen.
3. Wallichii isnt the best background color to show off the new crypt. It's looking too good lately not to keep so the plan is move it behind the number 5 green
4. Thinking of replacing Penthorum with Lobelia small form. I really like that plant and its hard to beat for contrast and making a street. Will need to change the Clinopodium it if I do that. Penthourm is cool and all but damn it grows fast, and Im really just in the mood for something different
5. Combine Acmella and Ambulia into a single species. It would be an easy decision is Ambulia didnt grow so fast. Im literally chopping down a few stems twice a week, which is why the group looks so butchered now. Im just like why bother, lol. Acmella I think is extremely cool but it would take at least 100 stems to get the look needed here, maybe 200, especially for a group running sideways.
6. Not sure kimberly is the best look color-wise. A narrow line of Pantanals might work, but it would need to be distinctly slimmer than the Lud red group in order to not have a big look at me plant dead center. Acmella could be a candidate here. Need to find a way to keep that plant.
7. Mini aromatica isnt staying. it needs a bigger area for a nice bushy display, candidates for right here are Rotala indica, Clinopodium, Oldenlandia or Mini Myrio, something short and stemmy. Whatever winds up in area 1 will decide what goes in front of it.
8. Unless the AR becomes show worthy this will probably be all one green something. A big splathe of Syn giants would be nice, gotta see how it grows first. Lots of other options if it doesnt.
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Well, a month might be pushing it.
If you ever want to try some just let me know, usually can spare a few.Im pretty sure nobody else has seen it either. Its not really in the hobby yet from what I understand. Although I did see a guy on FB auctioning off a spiralis 'tiger' which looked very similar. Didnt have the green stripe though
Great post Burr. Pics remind me of myself almost every weekend.Trim time!!
Today's episode featuring Ludwigia sp red and Bacopa colorata
Before
![]()
Pinch all the nice tops off, arrange in piles of short, med, and tall, scraps to the side for replanting elsewhere
![]()
This subject is not discussed often enough. The trimming and management of species is a pretty big slice of the pie. Truth is, if you are high tech, and plants are growing, you have to be prepared to care for each species this way. It is time consuming, so you need to need to enjoy the process, or it could become a burden.
For me, I find it therapeutic, and more importantly enjoy the results.
And as usual, everything is looking great. That new crypt certainly looks very interesting. And I agree about the Penthorum. Grows pretty fast to keep it right up front, and needs a lot of attention. I might move mine back more middle and let it grow a bit.
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Thanks Gregg!
And you definitely have to enjoy getting in there and messing with things. Like you said I find trimming and rearranging to be a calming, meditative activity (usually
). If I considered it some kind of chore it would be no fun at all.Penthorum will actually get very tall if you let it. Ive had them a foot tall before and round as a baseball bat! It stays pretty straight too
Burr just wanted to let you know that at least one person really studies pics like this. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to add, as I think you have a much better eye and sense of color/proportion than I do (and just growing great looking plants too!!). I study them to look for ideas in my own tank.Im still very much trying to learn how to create depth and scale while not using too many species according Dutch guidelines. This 4' tank should have no more than 12-14 total species. For me this is a big challenge to say the least.
Here's some tentative thoughts and plans on where things are headed, using my highly sophisticated MS Paint skills (which I dont often reveal to just anyone!) Input is welcome
![]()
The reason I mention it is that sometimes you don't get a lot of response from a post like this, but my guess is that are more like me who look forward to them, and find them very useful. It might interest you to know that I keep a "Burr" folder with many of your full tank shots. Sometimes I open them up side by side with a shot of mine and think how I might incorporate some of your tricks.
I do enjoy seeing the way you are able to rotate in and out species. That is a very nice luxury to have. Makes me think I might have to set up a grow out tank of my own sometime.
And of course, very much looking forward to the next rendition and seeing what you come up with.
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Interesting! I wasnt aware it was in the hobby yet. Mine doesnt really have those striations. I wonder if there's a difference between red tiger and just tiger.
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Yeah there's probably a very good chance its the same plant.
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I've always read that you shouldn't dose NPK and micros on the same day. Something about them interacting and an insoluble precipitate forming. Are you able to dose your micros daily because you're rolling your own or is there something else I'm missing? I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but at 50+ pages it's easy to miss a thing or two !
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