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Very good point made here.
Trim, clean, and wait!
120 Gal Dutchy Freestyle - Now with 35% less water volume!
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Trim, clean, and wait!
Figured I would emphasize this particular point as I seem to have a real problem with "understanding" it....
I am getting much better with "Trim" and "Clean", but...
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I think this sums up my life in general :grin2:
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I'd say anything with the proper electric charge. I want to emphasize that, based on what I've found in pointed discussion with the folks at Seachem, Purigen tends to be most effective against dissolved organics. However, the concept of ion exchange resins is they'll remove anything that has an appropriate charge and comes into contact with the material.
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6,139 Posts
Time for a long overdue update. Things have been crazy the past couple of weeks as Ive been setting up two new 20 gal tanks. More on that later. The three big tanks are all overgrown and crammed full of too many species, very little scaping going on in the 120. But that is about to change!
The one constant these past few weeks has been a daily dosing of micros at the following ppms:
Fe DTPA - .2 ppm
Mn - .09 ppm
B - .035 ppm
Zn - .065 ppm
Mo - .0025 ppm
Cu - .002 ppm
Ni - .0005 ppm
Up until two weeks ago N was 5 ppm KNO3 3x per week, and daily urea at .3 ppm. I started noticing some pale tops in a few plants. Well it certainly wasnt a shortage of Fe, and the next likely suspect was nitrogen. So I added an additional 2.5 ppm KNO3 and with just a couple of doses the pale plants colored up again and everything in general seemed to really take off.
Gotta say Ive never been real impressed with urea, so Im ditching it completely and starting KNO3 at 10 ppm 3x per week.
Posted this in the micro thread on TPT but it's relevant to dosing 10 ppm
Looking back to around a year and a half ago, the 50 gal went a few months at 10/2/10 NO3/P/K. Vin and I were trying to see whether high macros stunted Lythracae, specifically Rotala sunset.
It was during this time I had some of the best sunset growth Ive ever seen, and havent been able to duplicate it since.
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Thats the main reason I feel confident going back to 10 ppm KNO3. No urea back then either. Fwiw micros at the time were .0187 ppm of each; csmb, dtpa, and gluc, 3x per week
Here's some current pics how things are doing
Rotala macranda variegated, Limnophila belem, Rotala wallichii in the 50
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Wallichii in the 120
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Persicaria sao paulo in the 75. When this plant's leaves are flat and horizontal things are pretty damn good.
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^ also you can see a few Pantanal tops here. It's not even a challenge these days, grows an inch a day and no longer stunts after a topping. I've moved it all to the 75, just gonna farm a small group for a while, not sure Im gonna use it in the 120
Mermaid weed in the 50
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Ludwigia brevipes in one of the new 20s. It's been in a back corner of the 75 for a few months almost completely shaded, that's why its so green. Starting to color up nice after, four days I think
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The one constant these past few weeks has been a daily dosing of micros at the following ppms:
Fe DTPA - .2 ppm
Mn - .09 ppm
B - .035 ppm
Zn - .065 ppm
Mo - .0025 ppm
Cu - .002 ppm
Ni - .0005 ppm
Up until two weeks ago N was 5 ppm KNO3 3x per week, and daily urea at .3 ppm. I started noticing some pale tops in a few plants. Well it certainly wasnt a shortage of Fe, and the next likely suspect was nitrogen. So I added an additional 2.5 ppm KNO3 and with just a couple of doses the pale plants colored up again and everything in general seemed to really take off.
Gotta say Ive never been real impressed with urea, so Im ditching it completely and starting KNO3 at 10 ppm 3x per week.
Posted this in the micro thread on TPT but it's relevant to dosing 10 ppm
Looking back to around a year and a half ago, the 50 gal went a few months at 10/2/10 NO3/P/K. Vin and I were trying to see whether high macros stunted Lythracae, specifically Rotala sunset.
It was during this time I had some of the best sunset growth Ive ever seen, and havent been able to duplicate it since.
Thats the main reason I feel confident going back to 10 ppm KNO3. No urea back then either. Fwiw micros at the time were .0187 ppm of each; csmb, dtpa, and gluc, 3x per week
Here's some current pics how things are doing
Rotala macranda variegated, Limnophila belem, Rotala wallichii in the 50
Wallichii in the 120
Persicaria sao paulo in the 75. When this plant's leaves are flat and horizontal things are pretty damn good.
^ also you can see a few Pantanal tops here. It's not even a challenge these days, grows an inch a day and no longer stunts after a topping. I've moved it all to the 75, just gonna farm a small group for a while, not sure Im gonna use it in the 120
Mermaid weed in the 50
Ludwigia brevipes in one of the new 20s. It's been in a back corner of the 75 for a few months almost completely shaded, that's why its so green. Starting to color up nice after, four days I think
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Added some AR mini variegated to the 120. These were all split from two mother plants in the 75. Still a good bit of undulation but growing fairly well lately. The plants themselves were in bad need of some pruning attention. We'll see how it goes. Might put the regular here if these dont flatten out better.
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About a month ago I gave the Hydro japan a severe chopping. (spot the shrimp?)
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See all those white roots? Well you should've seen the backside of the wall, a thick solid wad of roots going down 4-5 inches.
Which wouldnt have been so bad but since the majority were now just roots with no greenery attached, it quickly started to brown and rot away.
After finally getting all that cleaned up, NEVER AGAIN will I use this plant here. Will probably go back to the regular Pennywort, at least part of the way around.
About a month ago I gave the Hydro japan a severe chopping. (spot the shrimp?)
See all those white roots? Well you should've seen the backside of the wall, a thick solid wad of roots going down 4-5 inches.
Which wouldnt have been so bad but since the majority were now just roots with no greenery attached, it quickly started to brown and rot away.
After finally getting all that cleaned up, NEVER AGAIN will I use this plant here. Will probably go back to the regular Pennywort, at least part of the way around.
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Set up two new 20 longs in the back room.
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For co2 I copied @fablau 's 20, using an Ista reactor instead of a Sera. Seras are great, a 500 model runs the 50.
Not sure about these Istas though. Getting a ton of mist running only 2-3 bubbles per second. The powerheads are Maxi-jet 400s, rated at 110 GPH. They are a few years old. Not sure if it's too much flow or not enough. In spite of the heavy mist, which I really dont mind, the PH drops hard and fast. So I'll probably just go with this for a while.
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Was thinking about putting Aquaclear 20s on the end right above the Ista's output. That would add a little more actual filtration and the current would blow the bubbles down better.
For lights I wanted to go with T5s if possible, but I knew a good dual bulb with individual reflectors would be way too much. So I took a chance on Oddyseas which has only one reflector for both bulbs.
Only 35 bucks each and came with 6500K bulbs. Currently running one 6500K and one Zoomed Flora
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PAR in the middle area directly underneath is 75, that's about what I was hoping for. Too bad they're only 24" long and the tank is 30. Its not a huge deal because the powerhead and reactor conglomeration takes up 3-4 inches on the right. So I was able to cheat the lights far to the left and only be a couple inches short on both ends. PAR on the very end drops to around 35. Still plenty for a lot of things
Substrate is blasting sand, same as the other tanks. Put down a thin layer of sand first then sprinkled in some Osmocote Plus, capped it off with the rest.
Using about this much has worked out well in a few tanks
![]()
For co2 I copied @fablau 's 20, using an Ista reactor instead of a Sera. Seras are great, a 500 model runs the 50.
Not sure about these Istas though. Getting a ton of mist running only 2-3 bubbles per second. The powerheads are Maxi-jet 400s, rated at 110 GPH. They are a few years old. Not sure if it's too much flow or not enough. In spite of the heavy mist, which I really dont mind, the PH drops hard and fast. So I'll probably just go with this for a while.
Was thinking about putting Aquaclear 20s on the end right above the Ista's output. That would add a little more actual filtration and the current would blow the bubbles down better.
For lights I wanted to go with T5s if possible, but I knew a good dual bulb with individual reflectors would be way too much. So I took a chance on Oddyseas which has only one reflector for both bulbs.
Only 35 bucks each and came with 6500K bulbs. Currently running one 6500K and one Zoomed Flora
PAR in the middle area directly underneath is 75, that's about what I was hoping for. Too bad they're only 24" long and the tank is 30. Its not a huge deal because the powerhead and reactor conglomeration takes up 3-4 inches on the right. So I was able to cheat the lights far to the left and only be a couple inches short on both ends. PAR on the very end drops to around 35. Still plenty for a lot of things
Substrate is blasting sand, same as the other tanks. Put down a thin layer of sand first then sprinkled in some Osmocote Plus, capped it off with the rest.
Using about this much has worked out well in a few tanks
Burr nice updates, and great pictures as usual.
I've gotta hand it to you setting up even more tanks. You truly are a dedicated plant keeper.
And it occurs to me you must be a busy guy on water change day.
I've thought about it many times, but just don't know if I want that much more to care for.
That being said.........it sure would be nice to have some grow out tanks.......hmmmmmmmm.
I should probably stop reading your thread. My weak mind is too susceptible to the power of suggestion:grin2:
I've gotta hand it to you setting up even more tanks. You truly are a dedicated plant keeper.
And it occurs to me you must be a busy guy on water change day.
I've thought about it many times, but just don't know if I want that much more to care for.
That being said.........it sure would be nice to have some grow out tanks.......hmmmmmmmm.
I should probably stop reading your thread. My weak mind is too susceptible to the power of suggestion:grin2:
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Incredible work! Absolutely inspiring pictures, all I have to say is wow! That’s a next-level tank setup for sure! Now I’ve gone and done it hahaha shouldn’t have read your thread cause I want one too now!
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lol, I learned this the hard way too. Not worth it.
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6,139 Posts
Starting to have something that resembles a plan
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Not thrilled with the Leopard val. It's just a big dark shadow unless you see whats on the surface
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I think a brighter plant would look better. May put the corkscrew there and a tall grassy something on the right
The giant Barclaya longifolia red came from Vin's tank. Im babysitting it for a week or two then it's off to a new home. It's blooming!
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Left side is pretty well mapped out. Might do something else in place of Acmella, thinking Pogo erectus if I can get it to do right. Gonna try it again with the new dosing
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New AR growth is coming in decent. Had to yank a couple bad ones down front and put in fresh babies.
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Notice my secret weapon at the base of the Nuphar, a plastic zip-tie to hold the leaves more straight up.
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Fat little shrimp chillin in the 50
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Not thrilled with the Leopard val. It's just a big dark shadow unless you see whats on the surface
I think a brighter plant would look better. May put the corkscrew there and a tall grassy something on the right
The giant Barclaya longifolia red came from Vin's tank. Im babysitting it for a week or two then it's off to a new home. It's blooming!
Left side is pretty well mapped out. Might do something else in place of Acmella, thinking Pogo erectus if I can get it to do right. Gonna try it again with the new dosing
New AR growth is coming in decent. Had to yank a couple bad ones down front and put in fresh babies.
Notice my secret weapon at the base of the Nuphar, a plastic zip-tie to hold the leaves more straight up.
Fat little shrimp chillin in the 50
Nice update Burr! Good to see a few more pictures, you've been slacking lately!! :wink2:
Interesting use of the Pogo K. I would never think to use it that short. Looks good the way you tiered it there.
And the plants all look healthy and vibrant as usual. You do get optimum color out of just about everything.
I like that Nuphar but it is blocking the Wallachii. You shouldn't hide what you have done with that stuff. I might try it again but could never get it to look like yours.
Is the tall grass in the very back middle Helanthium Bolivianum Angustifolius?? If so will it keep going right to the surface?
Interesting use of the Pogo K. I would never think to use it that short. Looks good the way you tiered it there.
And the plants all look healthy and vibrant as usual. You do get optimum color out of just about everything.
I like that Nuphar but it is blocking the Wallachii. You shouldn't hide what you have done with that stuff. I might try it again but could never get it to look like yours.
Is the tall grass in the very back middle Helanthium Bolivianum Angustifolius?? If so will it keep going right to the surface?
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Thanks man
Kimberly makes a great midground row or bush, especially since it grows slow and doesnt mind being topped and replanted.
Ideally here the Kimberly will be taller than the L red, say midway up the tank. The L red will be shorter or about the same as now, and probably narrower. Then the B colorata will be considerably taller than the L red. Thats the plan anyway.
Color has everything to do with the lights, as you're well aware.
Nuphar is about as tall as Im going to allow. Already cutting the biggest leaf or two off about every two weeks. Theres no telling what the root system looks like.
I'd just replanted the wallichii tops a few days ago is why its so short. As far as the scape goes it will be way on up a few inches from the surface.
I need to ask Vin what the grass is again. I keep writing it down and losing it. @Saxa Tilly
There's a couple Isoetes right behind it, both sorta blended in atm. One or the other is gonna stay. Probably move the grass to one of the front corners.
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6,139 Posts
Fert happenings:
Micros Im still dosing the .2 blend almost every day. It continues to be favorable.
Couple weeks ago I increased P from 2 ppm 3x to 2.5 ppm. Knowing that Pikez, Tom and Greggz all dose much higher levels I wanted to see what would happen. Ive tried higher levels before but not recently.
Only one really significant thing occurred. By the end of the week, about 1/3 of the wallichii in the 50 had stunted badly. Tops shriveled up and turned green. This plant has rolled along for months now without so much as a hiccup. The only thing changed was higher P.
Wallichii in the 120 was unaffected for the most part.
So 60% water change, cut the worst tops off in the 50, back down to 2 ppm last week and things are fine again.
Idk what it is about P and my tanks but every time I try to go up bad things happen. Its been that way for a couple of years going back to the high/low csmb days. It must interfere with something else is all I can think of.
And still it's only one plant we're talking about here. Nothing else seemed to notice a difference.
This week I just started 1.5 ppm 3x, gonna see how that works.
Some pics from today
Wallichii in the 50
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In the 120
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Young Pantanal coming off stumps in the 75
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Bottoms
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The plan going forward Im gonna give the new P a couple of weeks to see if 1.5 is any better than 2.
Then, if nothing happens to change my mind, Im either going up to .25 daily micros, or down to .15 - just to see what happens. Havent decided which yet.
/ferts
Couple of nights ago I pulled the Nuphar and cut it down to about 1/3 of what it was. I think it's screwing up the whole scale of the tank being so big. It's most likely destined for the auction block but I still need to find a good specimen plant to use in the general vicinity. Something tall and green that doesnt get the diameter of a beach ball.
The after:
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Scored 4 Rotala sunsets from herns. Apparently the last 4 stems in the country that anyone is willing to part with.
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AR settling in and starting to grow a little faster now. Really hope the new growth stays flat(er). Will slowly pinch the older leaves off as it goes
(Penthorum looks rough because it was mowed down to stumps a couple weeks ago. No worries there, it'll come back with a vengance)
![]()
Micros Im still dosing the .2 blend almost every day. It continues to be favorable.
Couple weeks ago I increased P from 2 ppm 3x to 2.5 ppm. Knowing that Pikez, Tom and Greggz all dose much higher levels I wanted to see what would happen. Ive tried higher levels before but not recently.
Only one really significant thing occurred. By the end of the week, about 1/3 of the wallichii in the 50 had stunted badly. Tops shriveled up and turned green. This plant has rolled along for months now without so much as a hiccup. The only thing changed was higher P.
Wallichii in the 120 was unaffected for the most part.
So 60% water change, cut the worst tops off in the 50, back down to 2 ppm last week and things are fine again.
Idk what it is about P and my tanks but every time I try to go up bad things happen. Its been that way for a couple of years going back to the high/low csmb days. It must interfere with something else is all I can think of.
And still it's only one plant we're talking about here. Nothing else seemed to notice a difference.
This week I just started 1.5 ppm 3x, gonna see how that works.
Some pics from today
Wallichii in the 50
In the 120
Young Pantanal coming off stumps in the 75
Bottoms
The plan going forward Im gonna give the new P a couple of weeks to see if 1.5 is any better than 2.
Then, if nothing happens to change my mind, Im either going up to .25 daily micros, or down to .15 - just to see what happens. Havent decided which yet.
/ferts
Couple of nights ago I pulled the Nuphar and cut it down to about 1/3 of what it was. I think it's screwing up the whole scale of the tank being so big. It's most likely destined for the auction block but I still need to find a good specimen plant to use in the general vicinity. Something tall and green that doesnt get the diameter of a beach ball.
The after:
Scored 4 Rotala sunsets from herns. Apparently the last 4 stems in the country that anyone is willing to part with.
AR settling in and starting to grow a little faster now. Really hope the new growth stays flat(er). Will slowly pinch the older leaves off as it goes
(Penthorum looks rough because it was mowed down to stumps a couple weeks ago. No worries there, it'll come back with a vengance)
Interesting on the PO4 Burr. The way your Wallachii responded might be a clue as to why I can't grow it?
As you know I finally found the upper limit of PO4 in my tank, but it's MUCH higher than yours.
I agree about the Nuphar. Too big and draws the eye right to it and dominates the scape. But still a nice looking interesting plant.
By the way, a couple of those Macranda Var. tops look very, very happy...........and the AR too....top notch!!
As you know I finally found the upper limit of PO4 in my tank, but it's MUCH higher than yours.
I agree about the Nuphar. Too big and draws the eye right to it and dominates the scape. But still a nice looking interesting plant.
By the way, a couple of those Macranda Var. tops look very, very happy...........and the AR too....top notch!!
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Gregg is right - Helanthium bolivianum Angustifolia.
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6,139 Posts
Thanks!
Nuphar lutea, its the plant I was talking about in the last post getting too big and unruly.
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The question was asked on BR why Rotala wallichii had better color in the 120 than in the 50. The answer is light.
And since @Greggz is over there showing out with his new fancy Seneye it seems like a good time to make a light post.
Wallichii in the 50
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In the 120
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About 85 PAR at the sub in the 50, from this
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Bulbs front to back:
6500K
Truelumen Flora
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About 120 PAR at the sub in the 120, from this
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Bulbs front to back:
ATI purple
3000K
Zoomed 420 Actinic
Powerveg 633
6500K
Zoomed Flora sun
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Typically you want more reds in front and blues in back for slightly better depth effect. But the 3000K and the Powerveg is so red/warm it helps to look through some blue first.
Im still not in love with the color rendition on the 120. Ever since installing the moss walls, all that extra green changed things, havent been able to find a combo I really like since.
@Nlewis , 75 nostalgia!
And since @Greggz is over there showing out with his new fancy Seneye
it seems like a good time to make a light post.Wallichii in the 50
In the 120
About 85 PAR at the sub in the 50, from this
Bulbs front to back:
6500K
Truelumen Flora
About 120 PAR at the sub in the 120, from this
Bulbs front to back:
ATI purple
3000K
Zoomed 420 Actinic
Powerveg 633
6500K
Zoomed Flora sun
Typically you want more reds in front and blues in back for slightly better depth effect. But the 3000K and the Powerveg is so red/warm it helps to look through some blue first.
Im still not in love with the color rendition on the 120. Ever since installing the moss walls, all that extra green changed things, havent been able to find a combo I really like since.
@Nlewis , 75 nostalgia!
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