[burr740]

Gotcha. Just wanted to make sure. You're not a fan of Ferrous Gluconate, right? I thought that I read somewhere about it causing brown "gunk" in the tank. I have been adding a small about each day and it seems to be okay but I have noticed gunk on the flow pipes. Just a tad, but it's there...

Only reason Im not a fan is because it doesnt hold up well in higher PH/KH such as mine.

When Ive used it in the past, the plants did seem to "get it" to some extent, but it soon precipitates leaving brown gunk everywhere, starting with and especially the outflow pipes.

Also if I ever dosed it when the PH was still high, like in the 7.4 range before the CO2 kicks on, it clouded the water immediately, a milky white cloudiness that lasted a few hours. It wouldnt happen if the PH was down in the low-mid 6s

This was using liquid Seachem Iron, not a dry form. What type are you using?

 

[Dempsey]

Only reason Im not a fan is because it doesnt hold up well in higher PH/KH such as mine.

When Ive used it in the past, the plants did seem to "get it" to some extent, but it soon precipitates leaving brown gunk everywhere, starting with and especially the outflow pipes.

Also if I ever dosed it when the PH was still high, like in the 7.4 range before the CO2 kicks on, it clouded the water immediately, a milky white cloudiness that lasted a few hours. It wouldnt happen if the PH was down in the low-mid 6s

This was using liquid Seachem Iron, not a dry form. What type are you using?

I'm using the dry form. When I first add it, it clouds the water for about a minute or 2. I'm also only adding small amounts daily. 1/32tsp. The plants seem to respond well to it though. I am also dosing DTPA 3x per week at 1/16tsp with micros.

 

[Ben Belton]

Also if I ever dosed it when the PH was still high, like in the 7.4 range before the CO2 kicks on, it clouded the water immediately, a milky white cloudiness that lasted a few hours. It wouldnt happen if the PH was down in the low-mid 6s

It's been a long time since chemistry, but I wonder if your problem was that at the higher pH, the iron was in it's ferric (+3) state so it precipitated your phosphate (-3). I've had this happen before. Would have explained a PO4 deficiency if you were having one at the time.

 

[burr740]

It's been a long time since chemistry, but I wonder if your problem was that at the higher pH, the iron was in it's ferric (+3) state so it precipitated your phosphate (-3). I've had this happen before. Would have explained a PO4 deficiency if you were having one at the time.

Could very well be, I never knew what was happening exactly. As for chemistry, mine goes about as far as being able to recognize which ferts are which...and thats about it!

I can tell you it's always been a constant thing in all my tanks though. Starting as far back as before the 75 even had co2. Used to happen with every dose. Soon as I hooked up some DIY co2, it stopped.

Fast forward a couple years later, when I tried it again for a few months, in conjunction with other forms of Fe, happened every time if the PH wasnt already dropped.

Happened as recently as a couple months ago, when I was just starting out these new micros and the levels were extremely low, saw a few deficiencies early on. Dosed a couple tanks up for a few days and it happened then too.

Ive never seen much in the way of P deficiency. But I DID notice a drastic improvement in the 75 once when I cut P way back. That seemed to fix a lot of Fe deficiency looking symptoms I was dealing with at the time. Symptoms which couldnt be fixed be simply adding more P. None of which ever really made sense to me. Got any ideas about that?

 

[vijay_06]

No problem. If you want to go further in depth on the subject, it's all explained a few pages back, along with a few links to other discussions/and articles.

The short version it was to get rid of the edta chelate that is used for most of the nutrients in csmb. Chelates all have a breaking point as far as PH levels. Mine is too high for edta to remain bound to Fe, except for a few hours each day when CO2 is at peak levels. EDTA breaks loose from Fe around 6.5. it holds to other nutrients on up little higher. Its not so much about the Fe as what the chelate can do once it becomes free.

To your other question, there's no "additional Fe" being added now. It's .1 total (3x week), coming from dtpa Fe, which is a different chelate with a higher PH threshold.

All the other nutrients are non-chelated compounds - the exact same stuff that's in Seachem Flourish and Trace

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Ben Belton]

Ive never seen much in the way of P deficiency. But I DID notice a drastic improvement in the 75 once when I cut P way back. That seemed to fix a lot of Fe deficiency looking symptoms I was dealing with at the time. Symptoms which couldnt be fixed be simply adding more P. None of which ever really made sense to me. Got any ideas about that?

Maybe when you cut your P back, there wasn't enough to precipitate out all the Fe. So there was some left over?
Complete guessing there.

Next time you are fiddling with your dosing, might could experiment. Increase your P and only add Fe later in the day when the pH is low.

 

[JTDillon]

Burr, I just got a few Grolux T5s. They cast a red/ pink glow to the entire tank...what would you use with them to balance them out?

 

[burr740]

Burr, I just got a few Grolux T5s. They cast a red/ pink glow to the entire tank...what would you use with them to balance them out?

I think a 1:1 ratio of 6500K and red/pink types is hard to beat. Unless you have a lot of slots then you can get fancier with a wide assortment.

My favorite combo in the 4 bulb I had on the 75 was 6500K, TL Flora, a 3000K and a blue actinic to "cool" down the 3000K. Eventually changed the actinic to an ATI purple


Update time Lots of happenings :bounce:

Took the main stump out and did a little hacking.

I never really liked the long horizontal part up top. It looked really good from the side, but from the front it created a shadow that made the whole thing look like a big dark square. It wasnt so bad in person, worse in pics

Also ran across two softballs of Christmas moss for $20 shipped. I took it as a sign from the universe that it was finally time to try a moss wall...


Here's the build:

Grabbed some #7 art mesh off no ebay links allowed Cut it to the appropriate size and zip tied it together

For supports Id originally planned on using rigid plastic airline tubing, and airline suction cups to hold it on. I wanted something that would be easy to take out/put back. This was deal breaker

But I dint have any rigid tubing. What I did have was some stainless steel rods (1/8" 304 welding rods). So I slid these inside some regular tubing

* Most folks arent going to have stainless steel rods laying around, but Im fairly sure using rigid plastic airline tubing would work the same way. Thats what I'd planned on doing in the first place.

 

[burr740]

Testing on the front glass

To attach the moss I just stitched in on using fishing line and a big ass needle. There might be a better way to do it, idk...

Vois la!

As you can see there wasnt enough moss to do the whole pieces, which are 12" tall. I think hopefully this will be enough as long as I keep the background plants tall enough. Also Im not sure how xmas moss grows, whether it'll spread on down or whatever.


Overall Im pretty happy with the result. It added a new sense of depth that I wasnt expecting. And now obviously I have to do the right side too because it looks weird without it.

Anybody have a buttload of xmas moss to get rid of?? :red_mouth

 

[Dempsey]

The tank looks amazing as always! Can't wait to see how the moss fills in. That seems like the best way to do it....

 

[Immortal1]

Kinda liking where this is headed. Stainless steel welding rod - did not know you were into high end metal fabrication ;-)
Have always wondered if a tank, like yours, would look better with some type of moss wall (dark green background) or a painted black glass back panel. Or better yet(?) a piece of low gloss black plexi glass in the tank, attached to the back wall (less reflection than glass). In my 20g low tech tank I had a fair amount of green algae on the glass. I keep the front and 1 side pretty clean and let the other 2 just grow - offered an interesting look after awhile.

You asked about x-mas moss - given the way the rest of your tank looks, I would how the wall would look with different clumps / patterns of moss?

 

[Greggz]

Looking good Burr! I like the DIY on the moss wall. Good idea and nicely implemented.

I guess pretty soon you are going to have to change the title of the thread.........looks like you are on your way to full proper Dutch, no more freestyle!

And I'm sensing your tank is finally going to be entered into a competition?? I think rightly so, and I'm predicting you will fair well.

And in general, beautifully presented as always.

 

[LRJ]

YES. That moss wall is going to take this tank to a whole new level. Already gives it more depth without even being grown in yet.

 

[SingAlongWithTsing]

you didn't pay more than $0.70 per piece of mesh did you? They're usually $0.70 or lower at Michael's (unless you don't have one where you live)

Are you gonna moss the side walls too in the future?

 

[burr740]

You asked about x-mas moss - given the way the rest of your tank looks, I would how the wall would look with different clumps / patterns of moss?

Done right it would probably look pretty good, or at least interesting. However Dutch rules frown on mixing mosses so I wanted to have it all one thing.

You can also plant on top of the moss stuff like Buces, Ferns, H pinnatifida, Anubias, anything that will grow attached to hardscape. Some of that may be in store for the future

Looking good Burr! I like the DIY on the moss wall. Good idea and nicely implemented.

I guess pretty soon you are going to have to change the title of the thread.........looks like you are on your way to full proper Dutch, no more freestyle!

And I'm sensing your tank is finally going to be entered into a competition?? I think rightly so, and I'm predicting you will fair well.

And in general, beautifully presented as always.

I never liked that title anyway.

Deadline for this years AGA is mid September. A lot needs to happen and go right between now and then for me to even consider it, but we'll see...

YES. That moss wall is going to take this tank to a whole new level. Already gives it more depth without even being grown in yet.

Yeah I wasnt expecting such a profound depth effect. It was the first thing I noticed when I stepped back and looked, like woah!

If I'd know it would make THAT much difference I would've done this a long time ago.

you didn't pay more than $0.70 per piece of mesh did you? They're usually $0.70 or lower at Michael's (unless you don't have one where you live)

Are you gonna moss the side walls too in the future?

These were $1 each, and I also grabbed some 13.5"x22.5" that were $2-something.

The right side is getting done asap, soon as I find some more moss. The left side may get it eventually but I'd also hate to give up the side view. So the left side is still up in the air at this point.

 

[Omar EAZi]

wow, that moss wall is already looking great, can't wait to see it grown and fully covering the place!

 

[burr740]

So I went back to the drawing board a little on the design. To prevent shrimps and small fish from going behind it, hiding or getting stuck, I decided to turn a 3/4" edge all around. That's about how much it stands off the glass. Not sure if that would be an issue or not, just seemed like the logical thing to do.

I used a sheet metal break (for bending metal) But you can do it by hand using a hammer on a hard surface.

This stuff is pretty soft, and the perforations make it easy to fold over in a straight line. Mash it over together first with your hands, then take a hammer and bang the crease real good. This will create a sharp, lasting bend. Easy peezy.

Use zip ties to secure the corners and anywhere two pieces meet

Quick pic after installing the side

 

[Immortal1]

Just keeps getting better and better

 

[LRJ]

Looks awesome, man.

 

[Immortal1]

20ish days without an update...
Gonna need more popcorn, LOL. Hope everything is going ok and you are just waiting for the big reveal.