[PEdwards]

That certainly looks like an organic molecule to me. If there's some loose in the tank AC or organic scavenging resin should take some of it out depending on the pore size of the AC and charge form of the resin. EDTA may just be too big and have the wrong charge for a resin to get hold of, but it's worth a try for other reasons.

 

[burr740]

I do have Purigen in there, about 250 ml in each filter.

 

[Saxa Tilly]

Thank you Burr for confirming that. I am surprised that this issue of EDTA being not biodegradable and that can "accumulate" in water with negative effects has never been brought up anywhere for the past 10 years, or at least, since the inception of EI. Tom also never mentioned such a possible problem. I'd really love to know his thoughts on this. Maybe we should open a thread on the barrreport to discuss all this with him as well. I bet Vin also would be extremely interested in joining the conversation.

Hey Fab - just reading and watching with an open mind and a hint of skepticism.

Mind you, I have not dismissed trace tox as hog wash either. Toxicity is a neutral subject with no emotional baggage in terrestrial horticulture. Proponents of aquarium trace tox have polarized the issue, so we have denialists who are equally dug in. This does not advance our hobby. An open mind and a collective willingness to experiment will get us there. I absolutely LOVE the fact that so many of us are willing to tweak, experiment and roll our own ferts to see what works. Even if these are not all perfectly controlled experiments, if hordes of n=1 anecdotes all begin pointing in a general direction, we have something.

Having played around with my 'Kill Tank' for almost a year, I know that plants look crappy for several reasons. Too much traces is just one reason. CSM+B is a heavy-handed industrial product with a potentially dicey chelator. I can theoretically see it causing problems for people with inert substrates and high degassed pH. The same dose may be far less harmful with aquasoil and pH of 5.5.

For most people, EDTA is not going to cause issues because of the dose at which it is administered and the regular water changes we all do. EDTA is not villian du jour. But Zorfox definitely has an excellent point/s. FWIW, rolling your own traces is easy enough to do (thanks to Rotalabutterfly) that we can easily try it and share results here soon enough.

In my Dutch tank, I am going to continue dosing my 3X Burr traces - CSM+B boosted with Fe DTPA and MnSO4. CSM+B is light in the blend, delivering only 0.045 ppm Fe every other day. Tank seems to be doing well.

 

[burr740]

Well now it looks like Sat when the ferts will arrive. :/

Your Amazon.com order of "1 Pound - Sodium Molybdate..." and 13 more items has shipped!

 

[Saxa Tilly]

Well now it looks like Sat when the ferts will arrive. :/

Just for giggles, you should calculate how many years your pound of Molybdate will last, given your dosing.

 

[burr740]

Just for giggles, you should calculate how many years your pound of Molybdate will last, given your dosing.

Haha, lets see if I can do this right. What'd we say the other day, 10 lifetimes?

Based on a csmb dose of .015 ppm Fe = .000114855 ppm Mo


"To reach your target of 0.000114855ppm Mo you will need to add 5.78 milligrams (equivalent to less than 1/64 tsp) of Na2MoO4*2H2O to your 500mL dosing container. Add 10mL of that mix to your 105gal aquarium to yield:"

So 5.78 milligrams = 50 doses, or about 100 days worth

453,592 milligrams in a pound

453,592 divided by 5.78 = 78,476.1245 batches lasting 100 days each

So approximately 7,847,600 days worth, divided by 365 = 21,500 years

LOL that cant be right, somebody check my math

 

[Christophe]

Just for giggles, you should calculate how many years your pound of Molybdate will last, given your dosing.

I'm one year into my supply. At the rate I'm currently using it, I'll run out in November of 2126. I figure by then that I'll be thoroughly sick of planted tanks and will have moved on to something else.

 

[burr740]

I'm one year into my supply. At the rate I'm currently using it, I'll run out in November of 2126. I figure by then that I'll be thoroughly sick of planted tanks and will have moved on to something else.

How many ppm of Mo are you dosing?

Also did you mirror csmb for the ratios of everything or use something else to go by?

 

[KWaters]

This is really great, I hadn't seen this tank before but color me impressed. Lots of good reds going on. Great balance of heights and shapes, and a wide variety of plants. Normally I prefer aquascapes that stick to one or two well-showcased plants, but you've managed to use a wide variety in a way that makes sense.

 

[Ben Belton]

Sigh... A whole page without any pictures

From the person closing out their tank. :grin2:

 

[Christophe]

How many ppm of Mo are you dosing?

Also did you mirror csmb for the ratios of everything or use something else to go by?

I'm only dosing 1.3 ppb per week of Mo.

I kinda surveyed a number of commercially provided micros. They're all pretty similar. My mix is sort of an average of them.

Current weekly totals:
Micro Solution
Fe 159 ppb, from roughly even amounts of Fe-gluc, Fe-EDTA, and Fe-DPTA
Mn 44 ppb
Zn 12 ppb
Cu 2 ppb

Macro Solution
NO3 15 ppm
PO4 1.8 ppm
K 10.2 ppm
Mo 1.3 ppb

I've dropped boron from the mix entirely since my water test showed 40 ppb in the tap. I mix DI 50/50, but 20 ppb is more than I mostly was adding when I thought I needed it anyway. Running it higher didn't seem to improve anything.

I make 4 weeks worth at a time, which is a good interval for experimentation, plus it's not around long enough to start growing stuff.

 

[burr740]

I'm only dosing 1.3 ppb per week of Mo.

I kinda surveyed a number of commercially provided micros. They're all pretty similar. My mix is sort of an average of them.

Current weekly totals:
Micro Solution
Fe 159 ppb, from roughly even amounts of Fe-gluc, Fe-EDTA, and Fe-DPTA
Mn 44 ppb
Zn 12 ppb
Cu 2 ppb

Macro Solution
NO3 15 ppm
PO4 1.8 ppm
K 10.2 ppm
Mo 1.3 ppb

I've dropped boron from the mix entirely since my water test showed 40 ppb in the tap. I mix DI 50/50, but 20 ppb is more than I mostly was adding when I thought I needed it anyway. Running it higher didn't seem to improve anything.

I make 4 weeks worth at a time, which is a good interval for experimentation, plus it's not around long enough to start growing stuff.

Thanks Christophe that is very helpful. I like the idea of 4 weeks worth at a time, especially in the beginning.

One more question if you dont mind, when you saw the precipitation of Mo and B, were you adding any vinegar, etc first to drop the alkalinity?

Im going to keep those separate regardless, just still trying to wrap my brain around why it seems to be OK in Seachem products.

 

[Christophe]

Thanks Christophe that is very helpful. I like the idea of 4 weeks worth at a time, especially in the beginning.

One more question if you dont mind, when you saw the precipitation of Mo and B, were you adding any vinegar, etc first to drop the alkalinity?

Im going to keep those separate regardless, just still trying to wrap my brain around why it seems to be OK in Seachem products.

I did not add vinegar to the test solutions.

I usually add 10ml white vinegar, the ordinary household strength, 3% or whatever, at the end in making my solutions.

Maybe that's worth a redo of the tests, to check that solubility in acidic solution.

 

[burr740]

I did not add vinegar to the test solutions.

I usually add 10ml white vinegar, the ordinary household strength, 3% or whatever, at the end in making my solutions.

Maybe that's worth a redo of the tests, to check that solubility in acidic solution.

OK thanks. I may run a test myself to see what happens.

Fwiw I always add vinegar to the water first. That way the solution is acidic before the powder ever goes in.

Not sure if that couple of minutes makes any real difference or not, just seems a more logical way to do it if the main concern is PH.

If the primary goal is just a mold retardant then obviously it doesnt matter.

 

[Greggz]

Burr why do I get a feeling I need to be wearing a tin foil hat when I read these latest posts?

I can already feel the brainwash coming over me...........doesn't help I easily succumb to the power of suggestion.

Heck, I might as well get it over with and start rolling my own............it's inevitable now.

Will this planted tank madness never end????:wink2::wink2:

 

[Immortal1]

This is what I am doing to help follow the above posts ;-)

 

[Greggz]

This is what I am doing to help follow the above posts ;-)

Linn LOL.........you hit the nail on the head there..........I believe I am in grave danger of becoming that guy!!!

But seriously, I love this discussion, and am going to pretend I have the capacity to follow along.:grin2:

 

[PEdwards]

21,488 years according to my calculations. When I was at Brightwell we bought trace elements by the 100 grams for a reason.

 

[burr740]

Might as well look at some pics while waiting on the ferts to come in. :bounce:

05/02 pic for reference

Today

Nelsonia canescens

Hygrophilla araguaia

Pantanal is looking.....fantastic really. Some of these are side shoots, about half are full stems, 15-16" tall. The tops arent as thick and full as what Ive seen in other people's tank, but for me this is pretty damn good

Pogo kimberly doing it's thing. Gonna let these new shoots get as tall as possible before replanting.

Variegated macranda looking about as good as it's ever looked in this tank. Does much better in the 50 for some reason.

Hyptis lorentziana is growing well. Wish it'd go a little more purple

Rotala wallichii seems pretty happy. Took last weeks trim in stride without missing a beat

Couple recent gifts from Saxa Tilly

Mini Myrio, took it a few days to even straighten back up. I was beginning to wonder but looks like it might do OK now.

Oh hey little Anubias white something or other!

Apparently I need to change some settings to photograph a white plant. Looks overexposed but nah, its just white.

How's that for pics @Sean W. !? :red_mouth

 

[Bunsen Honeydew]

I did not add vinegar to the test solutions.

I usually add 10ml white vinegar, the ordinary household strength, 3% or whatever, at the end in making my solutions.

Maybe that's worth a redo of the tests, to check that solubility in acidic solution.

Vinegar is 5% acidity.

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