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Carpe Diem
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I think you have a pretty good chance of success. I personally would have erred on the side of more plants, at least to start with, especially floaters.

Otherwise, I have made some pretty one-sided remarks before on a similar set-up some years ago. What got me thinking was the reply from that OP: "don't knock it before you try it". So I did. And now I have a couple of tanks with no filters, no heaters, and a WC once in a blue moon, top-offs only. My journals on those tanks are still somewhere on TPT.

Have fun and please keep this updated.
 

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So I know there are a lot of opinions on this, but I do think it's possible to have a low maintenance tank. Personally I have found that going low light / low tech is the best way to accomplish that. My 30g and even my 5g require VERY little maintenance. I top off the water when it gets low from evaporation and I do a 25-30% water change once or twice a year. I have eco complete substrate in my 30g and river gravel in my 5g. I have mostly heavy root feeders (crypts) and slow growing plants that prefer life attached to DW or rocks (anubias, java fern, bolbitis). I never had luck with stems in my setups, but that doesn't mean it isn't doable. I add fresh root tabs when the crypts let me know it's time (the leaves look yellow). I have 2 almost 9 year old amano shrimp and a similar aged black neon tetra along with an oto that lived about 6 or 7 years and some pencilfish that are a few years old at this point. So I know it's a healthy environment for the fish too and (some) shrimp too (I say some because I can't seem to keep RCS alive). I have never done a stagnant tank, though I know plenty of folks do nano jars with no filtration or water circulation so I can see it being possible to scale that up, though it may be difficult especially to provide enough oxygen for the fish. Personally I use a little in tank filter in the 5g and powerhead driven sponge filtration in the 30g. There is also a small internal filter in the 30g but that's more there to make sure I have extra cycled filter media if I ever need to set up an emergency hospital / QT tank or want to jump start the cycle on a new tank. I also have airstones of some kind in all of my tanks to help with circulation and surface agitation and it does seem to help the plants (I have had air pumps stop working without my notice and I don't notice until the plants start looking bad, so for whatever reason, a simple air stone seems to help the plants, and many fish love to play in the bubbles which is always fun to watch. Anyway, the point is, super low maintenance tanks are definitely doable.

That all being said, my tanks were not (almost) no maintenance from the day they were set up. I had to do water changes until the cycle was well established. I have no idea if it will take more or less time to cycle a tank with no flow though, so it might be a good idea to keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrite levels and do water changes if they get high as it is not really great for anything in the tank as far as I understand it. I know you weren't looking for advice just journaling your experience, and I m curious how it progresses, but as you are looking for a low-no maintenance tank I figured I would chime in that i am interested in your experiment (though, I would request you wait to add fish again until the tank is cycled) and give you my 2 cents regarding what has worked for me in terms of looooowwww maintenance tanks :) Good luck!
 

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I'm very interested to see how this goes, it could be a sweet shrimp tank if it works out I'll give it a go with a 5 gallon tank I have laying around
 

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Nice tank! ^_^

What kind of legs on the fixture? I have Current USA fixture also and would love to use those kind of legs.

--Mike
 

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This is good stuff. Change it up! I like it, but then again, I actually did it....without the soil as I stated earlier. It's the dry start method without the 'dry'. :wink2:
Keep up with those large water changes, and my bet is you will have continued success.

The plants will tell you what they need that doesn't come with the tap water or soil. You just have to be watchful.

More light = smaller leaves
Less light = larger leaves
More ferts = faster growth/algae
Less ferts = slower growth/less algae

This is over-generalizing, but still a good guide for my tanks. All of what I said above will change once the plants establish and fill the tank. That is when less ferts causes more algae, for obvious reason. So then you would need to lessen light and slow things down, which has never worked for me long term I think because the amount of root structure created demands more light and ferts. So unless you trim your roots, you may need to add more light and ferts eventually, or roots will rot and the tank will fail. Starting out with high light sort of forces you to stay with high light for those reasons. I've never heard of people trimming roots very often in aquariums. They usually cut the top of the plant, and re-plant it and throw out the old roots and all. This way, you don't end up with so much root structure that there is no way you can supply enough energy to them without causing imbalance within the whole tank.

Once the plants have grown to maturity and fill the tank (if it doesn't fall apart before then), adding more fish for fertilizer can be a good idea, rather than adding more bottled ferts.

Currently I have started a tank with LED's way above the surface, about 1.5 feet or more. So my water wisteria is growing very slowly, and growing larger leaves (less lacy looking). The stem plants are reaching up to the light and growing long, not bushy. Everything is in slow motion really.

I will bring the lights closer to the surface as the plants establish. Or not...
 

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New approaches to creating a successful environment for growing aquatic plants, I think everyone would be behind this in support, not everyone does EI dosing and hightech CO2 tanks and this is the low-tech forum

I'm running a four gallon stainless steel framed antique without a substrate, just a couple of pieces of driftwood and a tiny HOB with emergent moss and a terrestrial moneywort. It has a very slow turn over, less than 20 GPH. It has a 23 watt, 6500K spiral cfl in a reflector hood that it's sharing with my 2.5 gallon nano lowtech tank.

The light fixture is about a foot or so above both tanks.

So far, being a low light experiment, it's slowly growing both mosses and the strange little ferns I find locally in the stream next to our house. This is a native plant, cool water tank that averages about 58~65 degrees. I have a little bit of green fuzz algae that slowly going away as the mosses fill in.
 

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New approaches to creating a successful environment for growing aquatic plants, I think everyone would be behind this in support, not everyone does EI dosing and hightech CO2 tanks and this is the low-tech forum

I'm running a four gallon stainless steel framed antique without a substrate, just a couple of pieces of driftwood and a tiny HOB with emergent moss and a terrestrial moneywort. It has a very slow turn over, less than 20 GPH. It has a 23 watt, 6500K spiral cfl in a reflector hood that it's sharing with my 2.5 gallon nano lowtech tank.

The light fixture is about a foot or so above both tanks.

So far, being a low light experiment, it's slowly growing both mosses and the strange little ferns I find locally in the stream next to our house. This is a native plant, cool water tank that averages about 58~65 degrees. I have a little bit of green fuzz algae that slowly going away as the mosses fill in.
OP isn't low light at all...
I would like to bash this system as much as i can until i see success.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Mike sorry for delay. The legs were option when I bought led from big A. online pet store few years ago so I don't know if they are still available.

Again this is a low med light system. Didn't get true Par, using eye and 50% led.

Thanks all for comments, esp OVT read many ur posts. Will post pic next week or so.
 

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I would like to bash this system as much as i can until i see success.
That's not really a very nice attitude. But it reminds me why I stopped being so active on this forum. When I first started here this forum was all about help, support, encouragement, and overall, it was friendly. Wanting to bash someone's system? That's just mean, it's rude, it's unnecessary, and it's totally against everything I (and others that I know that have also stopped participating here) liked about this forum. Unfortunately, I started seeing a lot more people with your attitude as the years progressed, it's very sad to see so many prefer to be rude than supportive just because it's not the way you prefer to run your tanks.

Chun - I apologize for hijacking your thread with my rant, the rudeness just really frustrates me.
 

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That's not really a very nice attitude. But it reminds me why I stopped being so active on this forum. When I first started here this forum was all about help, support, encouragement, and overall, it was friendly. Wanting to bash someone's system? That's just mean, it's rude, it's unnecessary, and it's totally against everything I (and others that I know that have also stopped participating here) liked about this forum. Unfortunately, I started seeing a lot more people with your attitude as the years progressed, it's very sad to see so many prefer to be rude than supportive just because it's not the way you prefer to run your tanks.

Chun - I apologize for hijacking your thread with my rant, the rudeness just really frustrates me.

Bump:
OP isn't low light at all...
I would like to bash this system as much as i can until i see success.
 

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...it's very sad to see so many prefer to be rude than supportive just because it's not the way you prefer to run your tanks....
Generally speaking I would agree with you, but not in this case. If your read (maybe you did) the whole thread. The conditions that the OP was using to setup the tank are not very favorable to livestock and/or algae control. It's not like he decided to do a dirt tank, low tech, hi-tech and other members can support it.

He put fish inside of a week into an AS-based tank with no water changes, medium light. The maker of Aqua Soil strongly advises against that let alone most members here who have used AS. It appears most (if not all) of the fish died). Not doing water changes especially with the use of AS will also most likely create some pretty nasty algae development which is probably developing as we speak.

Why be supportive of this? The majority of posts were negative toward the OP for good reason. If a experienced person gives his/her blessing it would only encourage newbies to try this with probably very limited success and not stay with the hobby.
 

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Generally speaking I would agree with you, but not in this case. If your read (maybe you did) the whole thread. The conditions that the OP was using to setup the tank are not very favorable to livestock and/or algae control. It's not like he decided to do a dirt tank, low tech, hi-tech and other members can support it.

He put fish inside of a week into an AS-based tank with no water changes, medium light. The maker of Aqua Soil strongly advises against that let alone most members here who have used AS..
You've got a good point there. I never use a substrate, so for me, it seemed similar to one of my tanks. I don't use filters either. So my fish go in as soon as I fill, because I do major water changes. I didn't realize the soil was so toxic.

Ok, I take it back @StrungOut ! As long as it was about the fish, not the planted method. Because the method is one I'm in favor of experimenting with. :smile2:

Bump:
If OP did this experiment with no critters, that would have been fine. But killing fish in the name of simply to make a point of how lazy a person can be when it comes to keeping a tank is not acceptable.

Being lazy=killing fish. Bravo! Point was made.
Hopefully this will teach everyone not to add fish right away to a soil that is toxic to fish until the plants and filter are established and cycled.
 

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Generally speaking I would agree with you, but not in this case. If your read (maybe you did) the whole thread. The conditions that the OP was using to setup the tank are not very favorable to livestock and/or algae control.
Actually I did, and commented previously, including in my comments that even almost no maintenance tanks don't begin that way and require frequent water changes until cycled to keep ammonia levels low. I agree it was too early to add the fish, and I think OP also realized that and therefore removed the fish from the situation and is hopefully treating the ich.

Why be supportive of this? The majority of posts were negative toward the OP for good reason. If a experienced person gives his/her blessing it would only encourage newbies to try this with probably very limited success and not stay with the hobby.
I'm not supportive of putting fish in a toxic environment, and am glad the OP realized the mistake. But you can disagree without being a jerk. That's my problem. You can give advice about what not to do without being a jerk. That doesn't mean you are encouraging bad fishkeeping practices or giving your blessing to continue them that way.

As for the algae, OP hasn't posted anything about algae issues, and to be honest, not everyone cares if their tank has some algae, that's a matter of preference and in no way a sign of an unhealthy tank or critter unfriendly tank.

But killing fish in the name of simply to make a point of how lazy a person can be when it comes to keeping a tank is not acceptable.

Being lazy=killing fish. Bravo! Point was made.
This. This what I'm talking about. There is no need to be so rude about the situation. OP already admitted it was a mistake and the fish went in too early. No need to continue to be nasty about it, but that doesn't mean you are condoning or encouraging putting fish in a tank with a lot of ammonia.
Also, as sort of a side note, to the best of our knowledge, the fish are not necessarily dead. Ich does not have to be a death sentence and they are no longer in the tank. So assuming they are dead is jumping to a conclusion. But that's besides the point.

All I'm saying is there is a middle ground. You can make it clear you disagree with something someone did without being a jerk about it. Instead, explain why you think it was a bad plan, and what they could do differently in the future.

I know when I was starting on this forum I was much more likely to dismiss comments that were hostile. But if someone took the time to explain to me why they thought I had not made the best choice and what I could do differently, and were nice about it, then I would listen. That's what I mean by support and encouragement.

Newbies are just that, NEW, they need advice on how to do things better, not people putting them down, berating them, belittling them, and generally being nasty. If I started out with planted tanks and found this forum nowadays, I probably would not have stuck with it, because I sure as heck made some mistakes in the beginning, as I am sure everyone that is now an experienced hobbyist did too, but I would have been disheartened by people just yelling at me instead of giving me actual advice.
 

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Actually I did, and commented previously, including in my comments that even almost no maintenance tanks don't begin that way and require frequent water changes until cycled to keep ammonia levels low. I agree it was too early to add the fish, and I think OP also realized that and therefore removed the fish from the situation and is hopefully treating the ich.


I'm not supportive of putting fish in a toxic environment, and am glad the OP realized the mistake. But you can disagree without being a jerk. That's my problem. You can give advice about what not to do without being a jerk. That doesn't mean you are encouraging bad fishkeeping practices or giving your blessing to continue them that way.

As for the algae, OP hasn't posted anything about algae issues, and to be honest, not everyone cares if their tank has some algae, that's a matter of preference and in no way a sign of an unhealthy tank or critter unfriendly tank.


This. This what I'm talking about. There is no need to be so rude about the situation. OP already admitted it was a mistake and the fish went in too early. No need to continue to be nasty about it, but that doesn't mean you are condoning or encouraging putting fish in a tank with a lot of ammonia.
Also, as sort of a side note, to the best of our knowledge, the fish are not necessarily dead. Ich does not have to be a death sentence and they are no longer in the tank. So assuming they are dead is jumping to a conclusion. But that's besides the point.

All I'm saying is there is a middle ground. You can make it clear you disagree with something someone did without being a jerk about it. Instead, explain why you think it was a bad plan, and what they could do differently in the future.

I know when I was starting on this forum I was much more likely to dismiss comments that were hostile. But if someone took the time to explain to me why they thought I had not made the best choice and what I could do differently, and were nice about it, then I would listen. That's what I mean by support and encouragement.

Newbies are just that, NEW, they need advice on how to do things better, not people putting them down, berating them, belittling them, and generally being nasty. If I started out with planted tanks and found this forum nowadays, I probably would not have stuck with it, because I sure as heck made some mistakes in the beginning, as I am sure everyone that is now an experienced hobbyist did too, but I would have been disheartened by people just yelling at me instead of giving me actual advice.
If it makes you happy to call me a jerk, that's cool. I've been called worse. However, OP knew exactly what was going on when this thread was started. Everything that was done was intentional.

Been a while since I was on this site! Life is busy but that doesn't mean you can't have a planted tank! Goal is to have a nice looking tank with as little work as possible. Lots of left over stuff from before thrown together. Filter not needed right? Wish me luck!
If you really cared about providing the best life for your fish then don't buy any. No matter what you do it won't be as good as nature. What we do is intrinsically selfish and we support an industry that takes many of these fish and fauna out of the wild for our own purpose.
And what purpose would that be? I think quote number 1 suggests a few things. Don't you think, Karackle? Yes, I'm a jerk for calling a ace a ace and a spade a spade. Fantastic!

I'm more than happy to help a newbie. This is not what this situation was. Intentions, they do matter.

If I or anybody else told a newbie to cycle aqua soil, they would ask why, how and most of them would listen. Here lectures are given about how OP doesn't need advice. And even before my big ol' jerk self intruded on this thread, OP was warned,in great detail. Again, OP decided that wasn't the way to go. It was OP's way or the highway.

A person cannot be a victim and the cause at the same time.
 

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.. You can give advice about what not to do without being a jerk. That doesn't mean you are encouraging bad fishkeeping practices or giving your blessing to continue them that way.
I think your support is misplaced. The OP stated he didn't want advice. He was going to do what he wanted so yeah throwing fish into an AS-based tank inside of a week.

Also I'm not really asking for advice... Just sharing my tank journal.
@Karackle
Have you used Aquasoil? The supplier states you should do multiple water changes weekly and don't put fish in for about a month. Should I encourage other members to disregard instructions from other manufacturers just to support the OP?

As for the algae, OP hasn't posted anything about algae issues, and to be honest, not everyone cares if their tank has some algae, that's a matter of preference and in no way a sign of an unhealthy tank or critter unfriendly tank.
Getting algae is a preference? Why is the Algae thread one of the most popular? I can assure you it's not questions about how to grow it.
 

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When someone "experiments" like this it's asking for trouble all around. Then when someone broadcasts the experiment to more experienced people, the more experienced people are of course going to give advice, whether the OP or anyone else wants to hear it or not.

Personally, I think this "experiment" is a waste of time and money for the OP because I can tell you right now this tank isn't going to be successful long term, if it even makes it that far.

I'm not bashing anyone but when someone starts an "experiment" on the basis of excluding all help from anybody, what's the point in sharing it? What is the OP trying to learn from this "experiment"? So far it seems how not to start an aquasoil based tank.

The "experiment" was flawed from the beginning and that's the problem we seem to be having socially. People here see that and try to give advice according to what we are being presented with.

I've been reading this site for about 3 years now and I haven't read anything in this thread that I would consider offensive, unless experienced advice is offensive, which the OP has already stated is, by saying to not give advice in the first place. Well...most of us here don't need to subscribe to a thread to watch a tank slowly die.

The ones giving advice, know better than to let a tank that someone has worked hard to pay for and set up just wither away. I'd be more concerned if more people here supported this "experiment".

Dont get me wrong, we have all done our fair share of experimenting and it's what drives this hobby forward, but I just see the forward thinking here, IMO. Hence my first post.
 

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That's not really a very nice attitude. But it reminds me why I stopped being so active on this forum. When I first started here this forum was all about help, support, encouragement, and overall, it was friendly. Wanting to bash someone's system? That's just mean, it's rude, it's unnecessary, and it's totally against everything I (and others that I know that have also stopped participating here) liked about this forum. Unfortunately, I started seeing a lot more people with your attitude as the years progressed, it's very sad to see so many prefer to be rude than supportive just because it's not the way you prefer to run your tanks.

Chun - I apologize for hijacking your thread with my rant, the rudeness just really frustrates me.
all in good humor, maybe i should've said depict his system, cause thats what i do

Bump:
You've got a good point there. I never use a substrate, so for me, it seemed similar to one of my tanks. I don't use filters either. So my fish go in as soon as I fill, because I do major water changes. I didn't realize the soil was so toxic.

Ok, I take it back @StrungOut ! As long as it was about the fish, not the planted method. Because the method is one I'm in favor of experimenting with. :smile2:

Bump:
Hopefully this will teach everyone not to add fish right away to a soil that is toxic to fish until the plants and filter are established and cycled.
Take what back???
I didn't even get a chance to read :(

Bump:
Mike sorry for delay. The legs were option when I bought led from big A. online pet store few years ago so I don't know if they are still available.

Again this is a low med light system. Didn't get true Par, using eye and 50% led.

Thanks all for comments, esp OVT read many ur posts. Will post pic next week or so.
My bashing was on the lighting, and the lighting seemed to bright from the picture especially all the growth i've seen. I've killed way too many of fish myself so stating would be hypocritical, but ya don't do it (fish karma) Since its at 50% intensity maybe more doable, but i suggest lowering it more.
best
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order setting
 

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Carpe Diem
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Before we post another pro, con, or apropos of nothing opinion, let's consider the history of "narrow mindedness" and "it cannot be done", in 3 examples:

Example 1: Earth has been flat for millenniums. A bunch of heretics burnt alive at the stake and the Earth becomes round. Some time passes and now the Earth is a football

Example 2: How many people think they can break 3" concrete blocks with their bare hand? Hollywood is cool but when the bricks are right in front of you most of normal people have their doubts. I witnessed hundreds of young males staring at those bricks for the first time and I can always read their minds: "F* No". Good martial arts masters know the phenomenon well and they send a 60 lb 12 year old female black belt to break the blocks first. After that, you can guess what the new guys are thinking.

Example 3:
Tank: 90P clone ~48g
Light: 36" Hagen Glo 2 x t5HO 6" above water surface
Filter: Echeim 2075
Heater: Hydor 300 at 80F
Substrate: 3 x 9L new bags of ADA AquaSoil Amazonia normal
Hardscape: a bunch of Mopani, some pebles to keep plants down
Water: 8.4 pH tap. ~4 dKH, ~9 dGH, Prime
WC to date: 2 x 10g ea
Fertilization: start day 1 of flooding 1/2 recommended EI + 5 ml Excel every other day, no injected co2

Some details have been left out.

Time Line:
June 27 - June 30: flooded over 3 days
July 01: Ambulia, L. repens, L. aromatica, Water Sprite, a crypt, R. colorata, Java Fern, a lilly, floaters, snails go in
July 02: glass cleaned 4 sides
July 03: Amonia 0, Nitrate 10, 7.5 pH tank water
July 03: Ambulia and L. repens trimmed and replanted
July 04: 17 Flame Tetras + 3 C. sterbai +1 male guppy go in
July 04: new Blyxa, dwarf sag, Bacopa, H. kompact, AR mini, L. red go in
July 06: 35 Neon Tetras go in (3 dead, 1 jumper)
July 13: 5 C. sterbai + 5 Bolivian Rams + 10 otos (2 dead)

Pictures: as of July 17:









Challange: Go, break those bricks.

Pope Francis: "Who am I to judge?"
 
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