Thinking about adding a second canister or is it to much? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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Thinking about adding a second canister or is it to much?

So I've always heard/read there is never to much filtration. But I'm now reading in some of searches (not necessarily here) that you can have to much on a planted. One forum even said that to much can take away from the nutrients which doesn't make sense to me since they are still in the water...not stopping at the filter. To much flow I could understand depending on plants and fish species.

Here's my case... I have a new in box eheim 2213 I bought on sale for no apparent reason and no additional tanks planned in the near future until I feel I have "mastered" the one I have since it is at a pretty central location in our home. I have a 40B that is I would say medium planted right now and is continuing to fill in. The fish are composed of Endlers, 12-15 CPD, 6 Corydora Habrosus, 2 rubber lip plecostomus, and 1 lone Otto, lastly a growing colony of red cherry shrimp. My plan all along was to keep smaller fish so I could have a larger stock. Well after wondering when my new Endlers would start breeding, they are now exploding exponentially hence no number given. I am trying to come up with a population control method possibly in the tank, otherwise it's just me culling.

My current filter is an eheim Ecco pro 80 which also drives a large model ista mix max for my DIY co2. Would adding the 2213 be to much or "worth" the cost to run it? My thoughts are redundancy and just added mechanical filtration. Some of the bigger female Endlers will get pissy and try to eat or just tear off small plant leaves or parts they can get a hold of. I am pretty vigilant about snagging floating plant particles but honestly some further in the column may float for a few days until I get annoyed enough to dive in.

I know the 2213 is a lot "smaller" and less powerful not sure how that would effect adding it. Would it make sense to set up one filter strictly as mechanical and the other as bio for the best efficiency? Or set up both as intended for bio and mech? With redundancy in mind having each do a different task doesn't seem to be the best way to go but I am open to some education. I've also read about people not using the 2213 basket to gain a little media volume.

Thanks for reading, I know this was long.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 02:31 AM
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One thing is for sure, you can never over filter a tank, you can under filter, but never over filter. There are certainly many that run dual filters. I always run a filter that is overrated for my tanks.


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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 03:51 AM
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You could split the filter duties between the two unites. The smaller filter could house your carbon, purigen and some filter floss. The larger canister could hold the sponges and bio-media.

I've run multi-filters, there are some benefits, but for a well running tank there really no need. If you have some messy fish or some embalance in your take I'd go for it. Otherwise I'd start planning a second tank.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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I don't run carbon or purigen so far. The fish aren't generally messy but the Endler population is likely to grow high and quickly producing a decent amount of waste. I was also concerned about decaying plant pieces that I don't always get out right away.

I'd love another tank but I want to focus on this main display tank for the time being. I guess my question can be narrowed down to will adding another filter hurt anything? The 2213 flow will be fairly low so it shouldn't bother the fish or plants I wouldn't think.

I also thought I might setup the intake higher up in the water column, in the top half as apposed to my current intake being just off the bottom.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 02:15 PM
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I don't think the filter would hurt anything, if you are only puting mechanical and bio media in it then you don't have to worry.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 02:35 PM
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Thinking about adding a second canister or is it to much?

Your good for now but if you want to over stock it then a second filter isn't a back idea. It's better to over filter than under filter


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 02:52 PM
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The question of over filtering always gets down to this with me. Over filter? No. Over spend, overwork, over noise? Yes.
In your case the overspend is not a point other than the small amount a 2213 will add to the electrical bill. But what does it take? 10-15 watt would be my guess. Not a biggie.
But then I find having two filters does not work out to cleaning them half as often. With two filters, I find myself cleaning more. I'm thinking of removing one 2217 from a 75 as I just don't see the benefit of the extra cleaning, noise and electricity.
A second filter is not likely to do any harm but then it depends on how you feel about the other parts of the question. It's all about balance among lots of things.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
The question of over filtering always gets down to this with me. Over filter? No. Over spend, overwork, over noise? Yes.
In your case the overspend is not a point other than the small amount a 2213 will add to the electrical bill. But what does it take? 10-15 watt would be my guess. Not a biggie.
But then I find having two filters does not work out to cleaning them half as often. With two filters, I find myself cleaning more. I'm thinking of removing one 2217 from a 75 as I just don't see the benefit of the extra cleaning, noise and electricity.
A second filter is not likely to do any harm but then it depends on how you feel about the other parts of the question. It's all about balance among lots of things.
agreed. it's not going to hurt anything... but it's pretty pointless.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Well that's kinda why I shared my case. I already bought it (great sale price) It is a few more watts (maybe 8, I can't remember for sure). Having a lot little fish will add up, and I've already mentioned the somewhat consistent (but small) presence of plant matter when it gets picked off as much I do my best to manually remove.

I guess for redundancy purposes in a mechanical failure I could just move the media into the smaller filter. I still had the thought of adding the second intake at a higher level but I know many/most get by just fine not doing this.

Maintenance of the canisters has zero bearing on the decision in my mind. I'm not trying to go longer on an already extended period device. I would alternate maintenance if I ran both.

My goal is just to have the best quality and clarity possible. The filters can be hidden, they are not noisy, and low cost to run so I don't really consider these as arguments against doing it.

I suppose I could just wait and see also...maybe its more a matter of me hating to have a piece of equipment sitting in a closet unused (due to my impulse purchase).

I appreciate the discussion
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 04:22 PM
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NOW you have brought up a dangerous issue. When you have extra equipment, it does tend to collect more equipment until it does get another tank. MTS ahead!
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 04:31 PM
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I am not in the over filter camp, let's get that out of the way. The beauty of running an "extra" filter is that you pretty much have a cycled tank with a motor on it if the need arises. Make that stupid impulse buy on purrty fishes at the LFS? Slap that "extra" canister on a 5 gallon bucket, abracadabra! QT tank! Also good for getting a new setup going in nothing flat. It's like the gateway drug to Multiple Tank Syndrome, you have been warned.


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to throw it on... We'll call it redundancy and flow for now. I don't want to explain MTS to the wife just yet lol

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 07:56 PM
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I don't want to explain MTS to the wife just yet
Translation: it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission...


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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 08:09 PM
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Translation: it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission...
nailed it
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thinking about adding a second canister or is it to much?

So thank you to all those who advised this was unnecessary. Guess what...you were right! I dinked around all last night and this morning trying to make this work the way I wanted and look the way I wanted and ultimately just went back to the single.

It's weird, the 2213 seems to put out a much stronger flow than my Ecco pro 80. The 80 was cleaned recently so it's not gummed up. The 2213 created to much flow and was blowing my plants over. I'm wondering if the smaller strainer and lack of a nozzle on the 2213 (straight pipe) creates a speedier flow? I did play with closing the outflow but I had to nearly shut it to get it low enough. I never did try the spray bar.

I have my 80 intake and return in one corner back to a nice barely noticeable flow. On this 40b, at least this dual canister combo is much for a planted. Having pipes in every corner really took away from the "display" look I'm going for also.

At least I know the 2213 works and the hoses are put together should I need it...or should another tank suddenly appear

The media config is interesting to me between the Ecco pro 80 and classic 2213. The classic has ceramic, blue sponge, sintered beads, floss while the Ecco has beads in all trays with floss and prefilter blue sponge.

Anyway I'm done tinkering for now...have to dig out the driveway so the inlaws can get in tonight.
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