UV Sterilizer - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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UV Sterilizer

Hi All,

Anyone have any opinions on the JUP-23 models?

The only thing I dislike is that it's bulky and I'd have to place it in my sump so it's not such an ugly eyesore.

Thanks,

FishroomBum


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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 12:29 AM
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Make sure that it is a "level one" sterilizer.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 02:04 AM
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Make sure that it is a "level one" sterilizer.
What is a "level one" sterilizer.

Thanks!
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 03:31 AM
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What is a "level one" sterilizer.

Thanks!
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 09:35 AM
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What is a "level one" sterilizer.

Thanks!
Junk science terminology.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 01:07 PM
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I've has a Jup 23 for over 10 years. Only used it twice. Once the water is cleared up in 7 days, remove it from the tank.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 02:11 PM
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Junk science terminology.
? I thought "junk" in "junk science" meant it was meaningless.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 03:09 PM
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Junk science terminology.
Can you elaborate on this?


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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 03:19 PM
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Can you elaborate on this?
americanaquariumproducts is hot garbage. Barely readable. Few, if any, citations to sources other than himself.

Level 1 and level 2 are terms he made up. Category A-C as well (which is why he tries to copyright them).

The numbers for protozoans are completely out of whack with scientific papers.

And the slow flow rate requirement is a myth for recirculating systems. Although I will give him credit for mentioning that turnover rate matters. After decades of working with UV he's almost grasped some of the basic concepts.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscusStu View Post
americanaquariumproducts is hot garbage. Barely readable. Few, if any, citations to sources other than himself.

Level 1 and level 2 are terms he made up. Category A-C as well (which is why he tries to copyright them).

The numbers for protozoans are completely out of whack with scientific papers.

And the slow flow rate requirement is a myth for recirculating systems. Although I will give him credit for mentioning that turnover rate matters. After decades of working with UV he's almost grasped some of the basic concepts.
There is a lot here that I know nothing about- namely, UV sterilizers, thats why I asked. Thanks for elaborating on this. Ill look further into your points.


But, as far as fish medications and descriptions of their application his site is not all "garbage." I think that assessment would be unfair. I would agree that some of the information is over- hyped due to his also being a retailer. For instance, his backing of products like Melafix. And I still dont get the value in his Wondershells -is that what their called?

Another but-- there is much here that can be corroborated with other reputable sources. I dont just take the advice of one source-- especially one on the internet. But, also refer to scientific journals, my own texts ( I have Noga's text on Fish Disease and a handful of others). Are there questionable parts due to the recommendations coming form a retailer- sure. But, I would say the parts that are problematic are much less than the parts that are informative to the home hobbyist. His very thorough look at Columnaris and Saprolegnia is one of the best Ive seen anywhere. It is excellent.



It is up to the individual to do their due diligence and cross-reference anything you learn with corroborating information. And I have and do daily. Thats why I know-- for a fact-- that not all he puts on his pages is "garbage". Again, that assessment is unfair.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscusStu View Post
americanaquariumproducts is hot garbage. Barely readable. Few, if any, citations to sources other than himself.

Level 1 and level 2 are terms he made up. Category A-C as well (which is why he tries to copyright them).

The numbers for protozoans are completely out of whack with scientific papers.

And the slow flow rate requirement is a myth for recirculating systems. Although I will give him credit for mentioning that turnover rate matters. After decades of working with UV he's almost grasped some of the basic concepts.
I won't argue about that particular website you cited, but the term "Level 1" or "Level 2", as applied to UV sterilizers, is commonly used throughout the industry. It was not 'invented' by the owner of that website. There are "clarifiers" (kills green water algae only), "Level 1" (kills many organisms), and "Level 2" (kills many more organisms) sterilizers. "Level 2" are generally only used on larger containers such as ponds or swimming pools.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 06:01 PM
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I won't argue about that particular website you cited, but the term "Level 1" or "Level 2", as applied to UV sterilizers, is commonly used throughout the industry. It was not 'invented' by the owner of that website. There are "clarifiers" (kills green water algae only), "Level 1" (kills many organisms), and "Level 2" (kills many more organisms) sterilizers. "Level 2" are generally only used on larger containers such as ponds or swimming pools.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the "type" of unit but the kill rate you running it at. You can make any unit a clarifier, "level 1", or "level 2". Usually these are the numbers:

10,000 w/cm - clarifier
30,000 w/cm - sterilizer with some bacterial control
90,000+ w/cm - kills everything

That kill rate is determined by the flow rate going through the unit. A quality unit will give the flow numbers needed for whatever kill rate you are after. The trick is to pick a unit sized for your tank so it's easily tunable to your desired kill rate.

In freshwater you don't do slow flow generally through a UV. Flow rates for the 2 most popular real UV units:

30,000 w/cm
Aqua UV Classic 8W - 640GPH (max 200g tank)
Pentair Smart UV 18W - 360GPH (max 100g tank)
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 06:23 PM
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That has absolutely nothing to do with the "type" of unit but the kill rate you running it at. You can make any unit a clarifier, "level 1", or "level 2". Usually these are the numbers:

10,000 w/cm - clarifier
30,000 w/cm - sterilizer with some bacterial control
90,000+ w/cm - kills everything

That kill rate is determined by the flow rate going through the unit. A quality unit will give the flow numbers needed for whatever kill rate you are after. The trick is to pick a unit sized for your tank so it's easily tunable to your desired kill rate.

In freshwater you don't do slow flow generally through a UV. Flow rates for the 2 most popular real UV units:

30,000 w/cm
Aqua UV Classic 8W - 640GPH (max 200g tank)
Pentair Smart UV 18W - 360GPH (max 100g tank)
Not exactly. You need to factor-in the wattage of the bulb as well. Too much wattage will destroy units that aren't designed for that heat level. Each units' design is tuned to a certain kill level, be it clarifier, Level 1 or Level 2. Yes, each successive increase in sterilization power is cumulative, meaning that, e.g.; a Level 1 will do everything that the lower powered clarifier will do. In your first sentence, you are right about the "kill rate" and type of unit being different nomenclature, but it is the "kill rate" design that defines the unit type.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 06:41 PM
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Not exactly. You need to factor-in the wattage of the bulb as well. Too much wattage will destroy units that aren't designed for that heat level. Each units' design is tuned to a certain kill level, be it clarifier, Level 1 or Level 2. Yes, each successive increase in sterilization power is cumulative, meaning that, e.g.; a Level 1 will do everything that the lower powered clarifier will do. In your first sentence, you are right about the "kill rate" and type of unit being different nomenclature, but it is the "kill rate" design that defines the unit type.
Wattage of the bulb is irrelevant because all units come sized with the proper power supply for the given bulb. You can't just drop in a 25w bulb in an 8 watt unit because it probably won't fit and won't probably fire up to begin with.

There is no such thing as tuning design to a desired kill level. That is marketing crap used in the aquarium industry.

I can take an aqua uv classic 8 watt unit and set it to kill everything with 90,000+ kill rate by just running water through it at 200gph. I can also take the same exact unit and just have it just clarify by pushing 1000gph through it. The size of the bulb and subsequent unit only matters for how much water you are trying to sterilize. In the case of pentair if I have say a 200g gallon tank I would have to move up to a 25w unit.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 06:55 PM
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Wattage of the bulb is irrelevant because all units come sized with the proper power supply for the given bulb. You can't just drop in a 25w bulb in an 8 watt unit because it probably won't fit and won't probably fire up to begin with.

There is no such thing as tuning design to a desired kill level. That is marketing crap used in the aquarium industry.

I can take an aqua uv classic 8 watt unit and set it to kill everything with 90,000+ kill rate by just running water through it at 200gph. I can also take the same exact unit and just have it just clarify by pushing 1000gph through it. The size of the bulb and subsequent unit only matters for how much water you are trying to sterilize. In the case of pentair if I have say a 200g gallon tank I would have to move up to a 25w unit.

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I think we are saying the same thing ...and I agree with you. You are talking about what is required, in terms of wattage and flow to kill. I am talking about selecting a product, but the product, in the case of my recommendation to the OP, is to buy one capable of Level 1 sterilization. Manufacturers do "tune" their design to certain kill levels based upon their recommendations for flow, bulb wattage and tank size. As you said, to get ideal turnover through the UVS, you would need to go to a larger unit to get that turnover rate for a larger tank. We could not turn a clarifier into a Level 1 sterilizer.
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