CO2 system needle valve questions - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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CO2 system needle valve questions

Im diving into a co2 system for my 75 gallon. I have a 75 gallon with 2 DA fspecs and a 40 breeder sump that holds about 25 gallons of water. The sump is designed such that the only real surface agitation would be if the sump return area gets low on water. The sump is glass covered. The tank overflow is a herbie setup so not gping to lose alot of co2 there.
My water from the tap and in the tank runs at 2degrees KH and ph 6.7

I bought a sweet setup with a victor 250c regulator set up with a clippard mouse solenoid. The problem is the needle valve. It has an ideal 52-3-13 needle valve which i dont think will be fine enough adjustment.
Will this needle valve even be workable?

I have been pricing and sourcing other options.
One is the ideal 52-1-12 and another is a swagelok B-2MA2. The ideal allows finer adjustment.

Which needle valve fits my setup best?
Is the ideal 52-1 series going to allow enough co2 flow? Is the swagelok a better option on a larger tank and is it a workable valve?

If it makes any difference I can get the B-2MA2 for about 25 dollars cheaper than the 52-1-12
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 05:44 AM
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both valves work, but you need to find the balance between the price and their precision.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Do you think the ideal 52-3-13 would be workable at all?
I found a post about needle valves, and i have access to smc2200 series at work as well. This might be a good option because the clippard mouse solenoid has the 10-32 in and out ports. The smc 2200 that i can get would screw right into a 10/32 port and have a 1/4 push to connect. No heavy thing to be hanging and break off the 10/32 connections.

Im guessing ill be dosing co2 in the 4 bubbles per second range. I also have a reef-pi controller on this tank that monitors ph and I can control the solenoid from that.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 09:00 PM
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not the ideal 52-3-12, the ideal 52-2-12 is at the lower adjustable capability for precision flow rate control on our co2 system, the 52-3-12 is not good at all.

SMC AS2000 series needle valve is not good, the SMC AS1000 series needle valves work but take some effort to dial in the bubble rate, they are not design for precision flow control.


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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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Is the swagelock b-2ma2 better than the 52-2-13, i know that the 52-1-12 is one of of the best.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 03:38 AM
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Bump:
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Originally Posted by bigtrout View Post
Is the swagelock b-2ma2 better than the 52-2-13, i know that the 52-1-12 is one of of the best.
yes. the swagelok gives you more control of finer adjustment.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 03:39 AM
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yes, better, but a small fraction of the used M series may have damage on the needle stem, and for most of the new or used, need to adjust the needle position slightly to lower the minimum flow rate.


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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 05:13 AM
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I'm using a Swagelok S-series from Bettatail and I can set a metronome on my phone and match the bubbles per minute. I'd say that is precise enough, plus you can take a small allen wrench and lock in the dial so it doesn't move.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsaicin_MFK View Post
I'm using a Swagelok S-series from Bettatail and I can set a metronome on my phone and match the bubbles per minute. I'd say that is precise enough, plus you can take a small allen wrench and lock in the dial so it doesn't move.
Thanks...nice to know
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 08:24 PM
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When shopping, keep in mind that there are a number of different ways to go and each has advantages/disadvantages, and how we each want things to work can be a personalthing. So for needle valves, I never found them to be terribly critical, once we get out of th epot metal cheapies that come with sets off the shelf.
For an alternate, I like the Fabcon NV-55 which uses the 10-32 fitting which lets me run it inline on tubing and located off the reg and away from things. It also lets me place it where I can easily reach ot under my stands.
One quick source found by search as well as direct from Fabco:
https://www.radwell.com/Shop?source=...BoCbk0QAvD_BwE
For one to use hard plumbed to the reg, etc. the NV-55-18 is larger to let them fit the 1/8 inch pipe in the side but otherwise is exactly the same internal/operation :
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/f...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

I find both to be a reasonable alternative to some which are much higher priced and these do all I needed and have drag built into the control to keep it from slipping off what we set. I have used both on tanks from 20 long to 125 gallon with no problem.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-03-2020, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the opinions. I stopped at the local industrial supply and asked what they had. I can get a old stock swagelock b-21rs4 for 50 bucks if I want it. It has swagelock 1/4 tube fittings on each end. Can I get tube inserts and use this inline to remote my valve? Do they have to be swagelock inserts or will regular compression inserts work? I know the ferrules dont mix but they dont have any swagelock branded inserts. Any experience with this valve anyone?

Another question? Could I just get one of the evilbay flow meters and eliminate the needle valve and bubble counter?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-03-2020 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-03-2020, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrout View Post
Thanks for all the opinions. I stopped at the local industrial supply and asked what they had. I can get a old stock swagelock b-21rs4 for 50 bucks if I want it. It has swagelock 1/4 tube fittings on each end. Can I get tube inserts and use this inline to remote my valve? Do they have to be swagelock inserts or will regular compression inserts work? I know the ferrules dont mix but they dont have any swagelock branded inserts. Any experience with this valve anyone?
good valve and good price. normal insert works, and if you use 1/16 wall high pressure rating 1/4 OD polyurethane hose, you can get away from the hose insert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrout View Post
Another question? Could I just get one of the evilbay flow meters and eliminate the needle valve and bubble counter?
yes, but depends on the glass tube model and the valve model on the flowmeter.


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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-03-2020, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
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Was thinking about this one its listed in the flowmeter thread.

Adjustable Oxygen Flow Meter (0-19.5 LPH 02 @ 100 psig) 65mm

Well decided to use both a good needle valve and get thw flowmeter as well. I like the accuracy of a flowmeter much more than trying to count bubbles.

Found a Swagelock B-21rs4 for $48 and grabbed the new flowmeter that @Bettatail recommends as well. Combined with a victor vts250 converted for co2, a clippard mouse solenoid and a good clippard brass check valve, im hoping for a solid trouble free setup

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-07-2020 at 02:29 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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