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CO2 System Build questions

2K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  PlantedRich 
#1 ·
Well, I've decided to do a build-your-own CO2 system and have purchased a used regulator off of the bay. It's a VWR 55850-416, and I got it for a really good price. Seller claims it's in good working order, and offers 30 days to return. Anyway, I looked it up before making my offer, and here's the manufacturer's page: VWR® Multistage Gas Regulators with Stainless Steel Diaphragms. Looks like their MSRP is $569, so I'm pretty happy with it provided that it arrives in advertised condition.

I've also found this Ideal metering valve (ebay no: 274375026815), so that leaves the following:

  • solenoid
  • manifold
  • bubble counter
  • check valve
  • tubing
  • diffuser
  • drop checker
  • and a handful of 1/4" and 1/8" NPT nipples and ells (which I'll map out once the regulator and valve get here).
Do you see anything that I may have missed?

Thanks,
Dow
 
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#3 ·
Thanks for the fitting list, Bettatail. Looks like I can source all of those locally at one of the big box stores :). Now to locate the other components.

Oh, and I realize this is after the fact, but that regulator should be okay, shouldn't it?
 
#4 ·
the regulator is a good one, but make sure the output pressure is within the range for our co2 system.

also, there is a video I make a while ago, about ideal needle valve 52-2-12, its precision is not as good as a swagelok S series, but it is readily available in 1/8 npt ports and it is ability to micro-adjust flow rate is within the manageable level. it is one of the best choice ATM, imo, another good candidate is the 1/8 npt port swagelok M series angle pattern metering valve(talk to flowerfishs, he has some).

 
#7 ·
Bettatail: the valve I got was a 52-1-12, not the 2-12, so my understanding is that it's way more precise than the 2-12 valves.

flowerfishs: Was the valve you sold this one?



Joshism: Roger that. Once I get a solenoid heading this way, I'll locate an appropriate power supply for it.
 
#10 ·
Special thanks to flowerfishs for offering to exchange the 52-2-12 valve that I mistakenly bought with more precise a Swagelok Nupro B-2MA2 “M” Series. He didn't have to do that, and I'm extremely pleased that he did.

Remember folks, when buying something on ebay that you're not entirely familiar with, ALWAYS double-check your numbers and then double-check them again. :biggrin:

Thanks flowerfishs!
 
#11 ·
One of the tiny things and easy to miss in buying all the big stuff?
Between all the shopping, did you get a reg that already has the CGA 320 type nipple and nut for CO2? Also you will need a washer of some type, fiber, nylon or Perma-seal that goes between the flat face of the CO2 tank and the CGA320 nipple.
These are almost always easy to pick up at a local welding gas supply place. Often around the Ten dollars range so shipping is not always worth it to try to get a small savings online. If shopping at a welding shop, I tend to NOT mention, I'm changing a reg from one gas to another as some places are a bit gun shy about letting you do that.
 
#12 ·
One of the tiny things and easy to miss in buying all the big stuff?
Between all the shopping, did you get a reg that already has the CGA 320 type nipple and nut for CO2? Also you will need a washer of some type, fiber, nylon or Perma-seal that goes between the flat face of the CO2 tank and the CGA320 nipple.
These are almost always easy to pick up at a local welding gas supply place. Often around the Ten dollars range so shipping is not always worth it to try to get a small savings online. If shopping at a welding shop, I tend to NOT mention, I'm changing a reg from one gas to another as some places are a bit gun shy about letting you do that.

Roger that. The reg came with a CGA 320 nipple and nut. There's also a nylon gasket in there, but it's in pretty rough shape. I took it out to look at it, and it looks like it's been on there for a while, so I'll be replacing it. There's some slight discoloration around the nipple where the nut rides on it when connected to a tank. From the looks of the nylon washer, I'm thinking its likely because of a leaky connection. I'm planning on having it checked out when I go to pick up a tank. If it leaks, then I'll just replace the nipple and nut.
 
#13 ·
Sounds like a time to replace the washer just as a really cheap item that can save a loss of the whole tank of gas if we don't check carefully. One of those things that are so simple and cheap I don't remember what I paid for them! Some say to change it every time we fill the tank but if we are used to doing tank changes and have the right tools, like a good Crescent type wrench so we can get good torque on things, it will make the washer last much longer. The thing about washers of this sort is that we need to get them tight enough to compress a bit and not leak but they last nearly forever if we don't just screw it down so tight it kills the washer. Kind of one of those things that come with practice and using tools more. I would guess around the .25- . 50 range but I see Amazon has 10 for 5.99 and they are often not the cheapest place to buy as well as ten is way more than I would keep on hand. Got a home brew supply house any where close?
https://www.kegconnection.com/co2-cga-320-nut-nipple-and-washer/
There may be some corrosion looking stuff if somebody has been doing leak checks with soap solution and not getting it wiped off really good. A soak in vinegar and wipe down my make it look new again.
Maybe worth a try to have a nice new look all around.
 
#15 ·
Thanks PlantedRich, I suspect you're right. That washer's looking pretty rough. Here's a link to some pics I took of the washer, discoloration on the nipple, and the regulator itself. I'd say I got a pretty good deal for $40 plus shipping. :biggrin:

WVR Regulator Pics




It's not the vernier knob, it's the taper of the stem inside the valve itself. Here's a link to the Ideal valves: [URL="http://www.idealvalve.com/52-series-forged-brass-needle-valves.html"]Forged Brass Needle Valves | Ideal Valve Inc[/URL]. The 52-1-xx valves are more precise than the 52-2-xx valves. The last two numbers are just how the valve can be mounted.
 
#17 ·
I've read this thread and I just want to get honest opinions.
I purchased a new 10lb CO2 Tank and a new old stock Milwaukee MA957 Dual Gauge Regulator with 110V Solenoid and Needle Vlave with Bubble Counter Combo. I will supply CO2 to 4 20 gallon long tanks via a CO2 reactor on the exit of a shared sump (a mini rack system).

Are there any potential weaknesses of this CO2 Regulator/DualGuage/Solenoid/NeedleValve/BubbleCounter unit? Or should I anticipate a decent service life?

Light Cylinder Gauge Automotive lighting Gas
 
#18 ·
Are there any potential weaknesses of this CO2 Regulator/DualGuage/Solenoid/NeedleValve/BubbleCounter unit? Or should I anticipate a decent service life?
it works, and quality is OK, but it is a single stage and can not escape OUTPUT PRESSURE RISE which causes EOTD, and in extreme case, fish death.
The 10lb co2 tank you have, will still hold 1-1.5lb of co2 when all liquid co2 are gone and pressure start dropping. The pressure drops from 800-850 to near zero, the output pressure may rise by 10 psi(you can test this by turning off the co2 tank valve, and let the co2 run as usual, you will notice LP gauge needle goes up while the HP gauge needle goes down), sometimes this is a big increase of co2 injection and will cause trouble if you are not paying attention to the issue or to avoid it.

To avoid problem:
1. have it work with a Ph controller or do not run co2 near threshold.
2. make sure you set the output pressure higher(45 psi+), because if you set the regulator output pressure higher, when the input pressure drops, the output "rise" only contribute to a fairly small percentage extra co2 outputs compare to when the pressure output at low setting.
But, when you set the output pressure high, you will see it is not easy to dial in or set constant the co2 flow rate with that needle valve, it is kind of delmma, need to settle for the balance(find the sweet spot).
 
#19 ·
#22 ·
For simple terms? Don't let the CO2 tank run dry!
Since CO2 is a very cheap gas, one way to avoid the question of EOTD, is to refill the tank when you first start to see the high pressure go down. You may leave a
touch of CO2 in the tank but that is not really a big deal if it means we can use the far cheaper single stage regs.
Honest opinion section?
The set you have is "okay" but not one that some people want over the long haul as it does have some low grade complaints. The single stage reg but that is all I've ever used for the hobby stuff but what does drive me away is the lower quality of the solenoid and needle valve as they tend to take fussing too often. The solenoid is okay and will do the job but the "black box" type tend to use more power and when we leave them operated for long periods that power tends to heat the moving parts and they can stick. The needle valve is made of pretty low grade metal which can't be well machined to make a really nice smooth operation and it does tend to change the setting as it turns on/off. Not unusable but it can get irritating.
 
#21 ·
The real threshold depends on the different specific setup, it is the maximum present of co2 concentration in the planted tank before the fauna start getting uncomfortable.
normally this threshold commonly recognized as no more than 30ppm of co2, but can be higher if the oxygen level in the water is also high.
 
#24 ·
Some of the main points on what makes a good needle vale is something we can see.
The outside is often a good place to start and look at what the shape and how it is finished tells us. Looking at the two types of needle valves in this discussion we can see one is long while the other is short and stubby. Also the better one has a more smooth finish, which can mean it comes with more care given to precision. Not alway reliable but it is often said that a job that looks good will also be better than one which looks like nobody cared!
The shape has a great deal to do with how the needle will perform. Think of the needle moving in and out of a hole much like we might stick our thumb in a hole. So a short stubby needle can't have a long finely tapered shape, meaning that a tiny movement forward or back changes the flow much more than a fine taper. Also the number of threads per inch on the movement will change the forward movement and the better valve will have finer threads.
Precision in building does get more precise movement and that leans toward more fun for keeping it set right.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
I'm starting to think that ATT doesn't care at all about their landline customers.

Got to say landline is no longer the top priority it once was and for several reasons.
One is that way back in the Reagan years it was decided that we should "get the government off the business back" and that means drop regulation of things like the telephone, power and many of the utilities we all need.
So, it was a gradual process and took years to take effect but we are now in a totally deregulated telcom world. If your phone stops working, who do you call that cares? If you don't get a good cell signal is it your fault or whatever company you are paying.
Just a natural result of bad policy that tells business they only have to do what makes them the most money! No busy body group like the Public Service Commision to ask questions!
So your phone now works just like other items like your car! If it doesn't work, you get the option of trading it in!
Greed is often a bad policy for the public.
 
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