CO2 System Build questions - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dow View Post
Thanks PlantedRich, I suspect you're right. That washer's looking pretty rough. Here's a link to some pics I took of the washer, discoloration on the nipple, and the regulator itself. I'd say I got a pretty good deal for $40 plus shipping.

WVR Regulator Pics




It's not the vernier knob, it's the taper of the stem inside the valve itself. Here's a link to the Ideal valves: Forged Brass Needle Valves | Ideal Valve Inc. The 52-1-xx valves are more precise than the 52-2-xx valves. The last two numbers are just how the valve can be mounted.
Yes, that seems quite a good price. Now the question may become what you personally feel is worth added expense to get a better looking finish. The nipple and nut are more appearance item than actual wear item, so how you feel will dictate whether to change it or even try to shine it up.
I came into the tank CO2 use after years changing air on telephone cables where the regs were just another tool that got thrown around in the truck before being strapped to a pole or lowered down into a manhole, so appearance was never in my DNA for reg use. We let them get flooded during hurricanes or frozen during ice storms where we had to thaw them out with torches. Looks? Who cared, as long as they worked!
I still just use an old beater tank and swap it on refills, so that sometimes I get some old relic that looks like it went through the war, but if it were out in the open and on view to the visitors, putting a whole new nut/nipple combo on might fit for a reasonable price. Talk you into spending the money, not spent on the reg??
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 04:03 AM
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I've read this thread and I just want to get honest opinions.
I purchased a new 10lb CO2 Tank and a new old stock Milwaukee MA957 Dual Gauge Regulator with 110V Solenoid and Needle Vlave with Bubble Counter Combo. I will supply CO2 to 4 20 gallon long tanks via a CO2 reactor on the exit of a shared sump (a mini rack system).

Are there any potential weaknesses of this CO2 Regulator/DualGuage/Solenoid/NeedleValve/BubbleCounter unit? Or should I anticipate a decent service life?

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 06:09 AM
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Are there any potential weaknesses of this CO2 Regulator/DualGuage/Solenoid/NeedleValve/BubbleCounter unit? Or should I anticipate a decent service life?
it works, and quality is OK, but it is a single stage and can not escape OUTPUT PRESSURE RISE which causes EOTD, and in extreme case, fish death.
The 10lb co2 tank you have, will still hold 1-1.5lb of co2 when all liquid co2 are gone and pressure start dropping. The pressure drops from 800-850 to near zero, the output pressure may rise by 10 psi(you can test this by turning off the co2 tank valve, and let the co2 run as usual, you will notice LP gauge needle goes up while the HP gauge needle goes down), sometimes this is a big increase of co2 injection and will cause trouble if you are not paying attention to the issue or to avoid it.

To avoid problem:
1. have it work with a Ph controller or do not run co2 near threshold.
2. make sure you set the output pressure higher(45 psi+), because if you set the regulator output pressure higher, when the input pressure drops, the output "rise" only contribute to a fairly small percentage extra co2 outputs compare to when the pressure output at low setting.
But, when you set the output pressure high, you will see it is not easy to dial in or set constant the co2 flow rate with that needle valve, it is kind of delmma, need to settle for the balance(find the sweet spot).


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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 05:42 PM
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Thank you very much for the input. I am using a pH controller that is part of the DIY aquarium controller that I am building:

https://discourse.nodered.org/t/aqua...ay-board/25839

That should help minimize the effects of the End of Tank Dump, as it's a feed back system, rather than a manual feed foward...

I have to ask for a clarification regarding the term ' do not run the CO2 near threshold '.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 06:35 PM
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Tubing - https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/it...1107&catid=864
Check valve - https://premiumaquatics.com/products...ck-valves.html

My recommendations! You have Bettatail and Flowerfishs helping you out, so you are pretty much set.

Good luck with the build!
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 09:52 PM
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The real threshold depends on the different specific setup, it is the maximum present of co2 concentration in the planted tank before the fauna start getting uncomfortable.
normally this threshold commonly recognized as no more than 30ppm of co2, but can be higher if the oxygen level in the water is also high.


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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-30-2020, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FischAutoTechGarten View Post
Thank you very much for the input. I am using a pH controller that is part of the DIY aquarium controller that I am building:

https://discourse.nodered.org/t/aqua...ay-board/25839

That should help minimize the effects of the End of Tank Dump, as it's a feed back system, rather than a manual feed foward...

I have to ask for a clarification regarding the term ' do not run the CO2 near threshold '.
For simple terms? Don't let the CO2 tank run dry!
Since CO2 is a very cheap gas, one way to avoid the question of EOTD, is to refill the tank when you first start to see the high pressure go down. You may leave a
touch of CO2 in the tank but that is not really a big deal if it means we can use the far cheaper single stage regs.
Honest opinion section?
The set you have is "okay" but not one that some people want over the long haul as it does have some low grade complaints. The single stage reg but that is all I've ever used for the hobby stuff but what does drive me away is the lower quality of the solenoid and needle valve as they tend to take fussing too often. The solenoid is okay and will do the job but the "black box" type tend to use more power and when we leave them operated for long periods that power tends to heat the moving parts and they can stick. The needle valve is made of pretty low grade metal which can't be well machined to make a really nice smooth operation and it does tend to change the setting as it turns on/off. Not unusable but it can get irritating.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-31-2020, 03:40 PM
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Lightbulb

I have the V version with the vernier.....it is also visible in Betatail's second photo all the way up this thread, the one with the cylinder.

I talked to Ideal themselves, the vernier version does not give us any advantage....they recommend saving money and going with the regular, non V version.

The thing is, the vernier version is only an indicator/display, it does NOT have any gearing inside, to reduce the turns. It is good for use as an "indicator" of where you have set the metering valve to.....but does not make it automatically more precise. In our usage, we are counting bubbles...which by itself is not a super precise way. :-)

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If you get the Ideals with vernier handle is it more precise? I remember reading about that ages ago.

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-31-2020, 05:36 PM
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Some of the main points on what makes a good needle vale is something we can see.
The outside is often a good place to start and look at what the shape and how it is finished tells us. Looking at the two types of needle valves in this discussion we can see one is long while the other is short and stubby. Also the better one has a more smooth finish, which can mean it comes with more care given to precision. Not alway reliable but it is often said that a job that looks good will also be better than one which looks like nobody cared!
The shape has a great deal to do with how the needle will perform. Think of the needle moving in and out of a hole much like we might stick our thumb in a hole. So a short stubby needle can't have a long finely tapered shape, meaning that a tiny movement forward or back changes the flow much more than a fine taper. Also the number of threads per inch on the movement will change the forward movement and the better valve will have finer threads.
Precision in building does get more precise movement and that leans toward more fun for keeping it set right.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-31-2020, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
Yes, that seems quite a good price. Now the question may become what you personally feel is worth added expense to get a better looking finish. The nipple and nut are more appearance item than actual wear item, so how you feel will dictate whether to change it or even try to shine it up.
I came into the tank CO2 use after years changing air on telephone cables where the regs were just another tool that got thrown around in the truck before being strapped to a pole or lowered down into a manhole, so appearance was never in my DNA for reg use. We let them get flooded during hurricanes or frozen during ice storms where we had to thaw them out with torches. Looks? Who cared, as long as they worked!
I still just use an old beater tank and swap it on refills, so that sometimes I get some old relic that looks like it went through the war, but if it were out in the open and on view to the visitors, putting a whole new nut/nipple combo on might fit for a reasonable price. Talk you into spending the money, not spent on the reg??
Actually not a real question at all. I came from a farming and oilfield background. We never had anything that I can remember for "looks," but rather for function. For me, there's nothing like the patina that old tools get after years of use and care. This regulator won't be getting a new stem on it, nor will it get any polish. It'll get a new nylon washer, or maybe one of those permaseal brass o-rings, and I MIGHT try to remove the sharpie writing on the LP adjustment knob. Other than that, as long as it works as designed, then I'm good with it. Those little dings and scratches are like miles of living. Besides, I've got more important things to spend my money on

[BEGIN off-subject rant]


Speaking of changing air on phone lines. I'm beginning to think that ATT has just ditched the whole air in the lines thing. Every time it rains anywhere near my mother's house (rural West Texas), I have to turn in a trouble ticket because of the ungodly buzzing on her phone. Just did another one now, and they sent a guy out a week and a half ago. I'm starting to think that ATT doesn't care at all about their landline customers.

[/END off-subject rant]

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 03:58 PM
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I'm starting to think that ATT doesn't care at all about their landline customers.

Got to say landline is no longer the top priority it once was and for several reasons.
One is that way back in the Reagan years it was decided that we should "get the government off the business back" and that means drop regulation of things like the telephone, power and many of the utilities we all need.
So, it was a gradual process and took years to take effect but we are now in a totally deregulated telcom world. If your phone stops working, who do you call that cares? If you don't get a good cell signal is it your fault or whatever company you are paying.
Just a natural result of bad policy that tells business they only have to do what makes them the most money! No busy body group like the Public Service Commision to ask questions!
So your phone now works just like other items like your car! If it doesn't work, you get the option of trading it in!
Greed is often a bad policy for the public.
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