Co2 working pressure issues - co2 art regulator - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-09-2020, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
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Co2 working pressure issues - co2 art regulator

I am hoping someone can assist with the following problem.

First of all, I am very new to this, so I could be doing something very simple wrong.

I recently bought a CO2 art regulator, and I am having a very difficult time using the working pressure knob – notably reducing the pressure to an acceptable level (~30 – 40 psi).
Here is the issue:
(1) As soon as I reduce the bubble count down (trying to start at 1 bubble per second) the working pressure increases to over 60 psi;
(2) I have release the working pressure knob as far as it can go, but it has no effect.

I have watched numerous videos and read all the questions and answers on the CO2 art site. I have attempted the following:
(1) The CO2 art website simply recommends releasing the working pressure by removing the bubble counter and opening the needle valve. Of course this works as all built up pressure is removed from the chamber. However, it doesn’t resolve the issue that as soon as I tighten the needle valve, and reduce the bubble count again, the pressure simply goes straight back to over 60 psi.
(2) Other video tutorials have stated to always ensure the working pressure knob and needle valve is open when you first release gas from the canister. Ironically, other videos say the complete opposite, and to ensure the working pressure knob and needle valve is firmly shut. Disregarding the conflicting information, I have tried both with nil effect.

In summary, has anyone had the same issue?

In theory it makes sense that as soon as you tighten the needle valve (restrict the outflow of CO2) the working pressure reading would increase. What I don’t understand is how you maintain a low bubble count with also an acceptable working pressure reading.

This is truly doing my head in.

I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-09-2020, 07:05 PM
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Is your model the Elite? Do you only have one manifold? If more, (it accepts up to 5) then you'd want the working pressure higher. e.g. I have 5 manifolds and use max working pressure 50-60.

If I understand, you seem to have the manifold/bubble counter all the way open when you are connecting the tank to the regulator. Have you tried closing that and the working pressure all the way off, then connect the tank. At this point you should see 0 working pressure, 0 bubbles and the tank pressure should show the level of gas in your tank. Then slowly adjust up the working pressure to 30-40 from zero. There should still be no bubbles because your valve is still totally shut. If you can't get to this state, then I'd contact CO2Arts. Otherwise slowly open the valve to desired bubble rate and you should be set.
One tip is that because of air in the hoses that needs to be pushed out, often you need to crank the bubble count to very high rate for a minute or two until you see a flood of bubbles coming into the tank. If hose length is longer, it will take longer. Then quickly adjust the bubble count back down to desired level. Don't walk away mid-step or "Danger, Will Robinson!".

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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Not the elite, just the pro series. I have tried closing the needle valve and opening the working pressure completely. If I do this it goes straight to 60 psi.

I have tried every variation and none allow for a steady bubble rate under 60 psi.

Put simply, as soon as I reduce the bubble rate the working pressure climbs. Can’t explain it more simpler than that.

The working pressure knob is always completely released (no pressure).

If I want to have 30 psi pressure I have to have a rapid amount of co2 being released.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romeo12 View Post
Not the elite, just the pro series. I have tried closing the needle valve and opening the working pressure completely. If I do this it goes straight to 60 psi.

I have tried every variation and none allow for a steady bubble rate under 60 psi.

Put simply, as soon as I reduce the bubble rate the working pressure climbs. Can’t explain it more simpler than that.

The working pressure knob is always completely released (no pressure).

If I want to have 30 psi pressure I have to have a rapid amount of co2 being released.
first off.. IF you set the pressure at say 30psi.. Solenoid off so no gas gets out .
Then open the solenoid

If your gauge ever rises your regulator is faulty..


sounds like 60psi is the maximum out pressure your regulator can do and should never need to be set that high..


Quote:
(2) I have release the working pressure knob as far as it can go, but it has no effect.
Turning thet knob counter clockwise should make your outlet pressure lower to zero (fully loosened).


Turning it clockwise will enable and increase your outlet pressure.

The "Milwaukee" way of adj. states to set outlet pressure at zero and open up the metering valve to full.
Then increase outlet pressure (turning knob clockwise) until you get good flow (lots of bubbles) then close the metering valve till you get your target bubble rate.

Sort of opposite of what most people do, thus your confusion.

Set outlet pressure, then open valve till you get what you want.

Either way and if using an atomizer , your outlet pressure should not need to exceed 35psi-ish.
If it does it generally points to a leak somewhere.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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The only way I can set the working pressure to that psi is if I pretty much completely open the needle valve.

If the needle valve is closed or the solenoid is off it goes straight to 60psi. There is no way to reduce working pressure to 30 psi.

I have no control over this.

In addition, you canít regulate working pressure with the solenoid or needle valve off.

The release of gas from the main tank will result in the gas being trapped - at the predetermined rate.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-13-2020 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romeo12 View Post
The only way I can set the working pressure to that psi is if I pretty much completely open the needle valve.
If the needle valve is closed or the solenoid is off it goes straight to 60psi. There is no way to reduce working pressure to 30 psi.

I have no control over this.


Then it's defective.
Point of a regulator is to regulate pressure.. Regardless if it's open or closed downstream output gauge should remain the same and at your set point.
Some regulators do have preset pressures but if you have an adj. knob on front on the reg then yours isn't a preset..


Current co2art lists max output pressure at 80 or 40 psi...so really 0-80 or 0-40..

https://www.co2art.us/pages/regulators-comparison-chart
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I agree it must be defective
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 02:32 PM
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Step one is often to sort the bad ideas from the good!
So start with throwing out any idea that we should totally shut off flow with a needle valve as that is sure trouble. A good needle valve is a precision needle with a long fine taper into a precision hole. They are often made of reasonably soft metal, so what happens when we cram a pretty little needle hard up against another pretty little item? We deform one or both and they are no longer precise, so forget the folks who tell you to do this!
Bad info is easy to get.
Always open the reg setting before opening the tank to prevent a short term rush of high pressure going through the reg to the point where the low pressure meter sets as that milli-second burst of 800+ can/will bend or break a meter that only reads to 100 PSI. Some regs are worse than others but none are harmed by doing it safe on all.
A reg that will not regulate the output pressure, no matter what it is feeding is simply defective as it does not do the one simple thing required, regulate. The needle valve only has one job and that is to control the amount of gas but after it has the right pressure. Step one has to work before we try to do step two.
Sounds like your reg is bad. If a reg has to have some other item attached before it regulates, why have it?
CO2 is actually pretty complex sounding and boggles the mind at first but once we know what each item does (divide and conquer thinking!) it is not that hard.
Think of it as a soccer game. The reg is the crowd control who set how fast people get into game, the needle valve determines how many pass, and the bubble counter counts them!
From there on, I have no idea what happens ???? Maybe a diffuser spreads them out and they do whatever they want!
Enjoy the learning trip.
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