Filtration question - The Planted Tank Forum
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By minorhero
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-19-2020, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 26
Filtration question

Ok so setting up a 430L heavily planted tank ...it will have 2 canister filters....my question is where should the intake and outflow pipes ideally be placed in the tank....

So will have 4 total 1 intake and one outflow for each canister obviously....?


Worth mentioning that I'm planning on using glass intake and outage on both canisters for effect....im thinking the glassintake with built in surface skimmer will be benifical but not sure

Here is link for what I'm talking about


https://www.no ebay links allowedcom...rjOmaOYZxLUVPg


The canisters I'm using below

One with uv sterilisation
https://www.natureaquariums.com.au/c...filter-2200l-h

And one with inbuilt heater
https://www.aquaticsupplies.com.au/c...50-250l-900l-h


One more question....for optimal co2 Shall i use a reactor on each canister or would one be sufficient?(direct injection via canister hoses)
Tyeman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-19-2020, 11:46 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
minorhero's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyeman View Post
Ok so setting up a 430L heavily planted tank ...it will have 2 canister filters....my question is where should the intake and outflow pipes ideally be placed in the tank....

So will have 4 total 1 intake and one outflow for each canister obviously....?


Worth mentioning that I'm planning on using glass intake and outage on both canisters for effect....im thinking the glassintake with built in surface skimmer will be benifical but not sure

Here is link for what I'm talking about


https://www.no ebay links allowedcom...rjOmaOYZxLUVPg


The canisters I'm using below

One with uv sterilisation
https://www.natureaquariums.com.au/c...filter-2200l-h

And one with inbuilt heater
https://www.aquaticsupplies.com.au/c...50-250l-900l-h


One more question....for optimal co2 Shall i use a reactor on each canister or would one be sufficient?(direct injection via canister hoses)
Sorry for my own understanding I have to convert everything to gallons. You have about a 120 gallon tank which is a pretty standard size for larger tanks. You have two canister filters which collectively are rated at 800 gallons per hour. Meaning you have around 6.5 times turnover as the advertised numbers for the canister filters collectively. This is potentially problematic. Canister filters are notorious liars when it comes to output. They measure their output with the filter empty of media and directly as it leaves the filter itself (meaning zero head pressure from say traveling 4 feet up in the air and into a tank). Generally folks recommend taking the advertised number and dividing it in half to figure out what the canister filter will actually be producing when in a tank. This is where the problem comes in. If you divide your 6.5 in half you have 3.25 turnover per hour. Generally its recommended you have 4-8 times turnover per hour to avoid bad algae outbreaks etc.

I am getting the feeling you chose these filters because you want to avoid equipment in the tank like heaters or uv filters etc. But by using these you are probably going to need a powerhead to keep the water circulating /shrug its up to you.

Most folks that use larger tanks like this do so with a sump which allows for significantly more customization and ease of maintenance while keeping everything out of the tank. The downside is you don't use lily pipes, instead you need to drill the tank. Personally I don't consider that a real downside because cleaning those glass pipes is a chore but /shrug just my opinion.

Anyway if you chose to ignore all that and just go for it. You want to place your intakes and returns so you get a circular flow throughout the tank. Ideally this would mean one in each corner. More realistically you will likely need to play with it once you get your hardscape setup so you can see how the water flows around the tank with the hardscape there to interfere.

Regarding co2. You do not need multiple reactors. CO2 simply does not outgas that fast and one reactor is incredibly efficient at distributing co2 to begin with. So just use one with a bypass on the reactor to help maintain flow.
zmartin and sbank like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minorhero is online now  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 26
Thanks heaps for that info I still dont quiet get the maths...

What do u think if i went with these filters would I still need a power head and would they do the job properly?


https://www.aquaticsupplies.com.au/c...0-350l-1100l-h


https://www.natureaquariums.com.au/c...filter-2200l-h
Tyeman is offline  
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 01:06 AM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,546
Go with the higher flow ones: you can always decrease the flow, if needed.
OVT is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:34 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
DaveKS's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 67212
Posts: 2,118
What are dimensions on tank? Probably with the 2 higher flow ones you’ll be right on line of adequate flow if you set it up intelligently so flow of each canister works together. But can very much depend on how deep tank is and how nozzles direct flow. Glass tulip nozzles are crap for providing high->low circulation in tank if tank is over say 30-35cm deep, one of your nozzles need to blow down at a 15-20° angle.
DaveKS is online now  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
What are dimensions on tank? Probably with the 2 higher flow ones you’ll be right on line of adequate flow if you set it up intelligently so flow of each canister works together. But can very much depend on how deep tank is and how nozzles direct flow. Glass tulip nozzles are crap for providing high->low circulation in tank if tank is over say 30-35cm deep, one of your nozzles need to blow down at a 15-20° angle.
Dimensions on tank are 151x51x55cm...is there no such glass intake / outake that is good at directing flow?
Tyeman is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 11:06 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
minorhero's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyeman View Post
Dimensions on tank are 151x51x55cm...is there no such glass intake / outake that is good at directing flow?
Not that I have seen... maybe there is but the glassware is more appropriate for dispersing flow over a wider area then directing it. Frankly I think they are more appropriate for small to medium sized tanks. I see them on larger tanks but those tanks tend to be fully planted, meaning every surface is covered in plants, carpets, stems, etc. Those plants are doing a good amount of filtration all on their own.

Again you can make this work, but you 1) need to watch flow and see how your water is moving in your tank (look for dead spots etc) and 2) be willing to change things up if its not working. This might mean buying new filters, adding power heads, changing intake and return equipment etc. Personally I would give it a try and just be willing to change things as needed.

Don't buy plants and animals etc and be in a situation where you NEED a place for them so you rush things. Set up the tank, setup the hardscape, fill the tank, and watch what happens. Then when you are satisfied, buy plants etc.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minorhero is online now  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2020, 02:45 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by minorhero View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyeman View Post
Dimensions on tank are 151x51x55cm...is there no such glass intake / outake that is good at directing flow?
Not that I have seen... maybe there is but the glassware is more appropriate for dispersing flow over a wider area then directing it. Frankly I think they are more appropriate for small to medium sized tanks. I see them on larger tanks but those tanks tend to be fully planted, meaning every surface is covered in plants, carpets, stems, etc. Those plants are doing a good amount of filtration all on their own.

Again you can make this work, but you 1) need to watch flow and see how your water is moving in your tank (look for dead spots etc) and 2) be willing to change things up if its not working. This might mean buying new filters, adding power heads, changing intake and return equipment etc. Personally I would give it a try and just be willing to change things as needed.

Don't buy plants and animals etc and be in a situation where you NEED a place for them so you rush things. Set up the tank, setup the hardscape, fill the tank, and watch what happens. Then when you are satisfied, buy plants etc.
Kuwl yea I'm planning on having the whole tank filled with plants so that's good to hear and yea totally agree will have to take it slow and be willing to change it up...
Tyeman is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2020, 05:35 PM
Algae Grower
 
sbank's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 65
I've got a very similar setup and dealt with the same questions over the last year.

The question of how much filtration turnover and getting even flow are separate issues. Good advice to be conservative by assuming ~half the manufacturer's spec on gph.

Regarding flow, one consideration is the type of fish. Rainbows will appreciate a river-like flow, while others prefer a much gentler flow. I agree that adding powerhead(s) (perhaps small ones) will give you flexibility based on your scape and intake/output placement.

With a tall tank and also wanting glass, I struggled to find a long intake tubes and pipes that would get CO2 as low in the tank as I'd prefer. I found "Violet" pipes vs. more common Lily pipes angle the flow lower into the tank. I bought steel intakes with skimmers just for looks compared to my prior functional but not so pretty, green Eheim stuff.

One nit / tip for setup -- when connecting inline heater, inline reactors, the orientation under your tank might be tricky. Please wait before cutting excess length of your hoses. If your change your intake/output locations to adjust flow, you don't want to find yourself short of needed hoses. In my case an "X" setup with the left canister output going into the tank on the right and visa-versa made it easier to orient the inline gadgetry.

Walking the tightrope of discus in a high tech planted tank.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
sbank is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-05-2020, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 26
Thnx good tips appreciated
Tyeman is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-05-2020, 07:07 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
DaveKS's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 67212
Posts: 2,118
Some lily pipe have a more downward angle



Other go more straight out



Get one of each.
DaveKS is online now  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-11-2020, 02:58 PM
Algae Grower
 
sbank's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 65
Yeah, @DaveKS. The top photo is what I have. When shopping, I saw them described as "violet pipes"...might help with your search, @Tyeman.

Walking the tightrope of discus in a high tech planted tank.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
sbank is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome