Small and quiet canister filter? - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 03:42 PM
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I don't see any Eheim products getting restocked at my local chain pet stores, or local pet stores here in Vermont.
There is no money to be made on Eheim filters. They sell on Amazon at roughly the same price my wholesalers offer them now. A few brands have gone this direction and that's probably why you rarely see them in stores. Almost every customer who comes in mine has a smart phone and if you are 30 to 50% higher than they see it online, they assume your shop is expensive. So you carry brands that you can be competitive on. Hagen products (Fluval, Aqua Clear, etc.) has a MAP policy, but it isn't enforced so I've dropped them too even though they make some of my favorite products. Aquatics as a category is in huge trouble. You sell tanks at near cost, there's no margin on anything with a plug, and fish will never carry you. This is why stores get out of aquatics and why your local Mom and Pop fish store is becoming a thing of the past.
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post #32 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 03:57 PM
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There is no money to be made on.
Yep, before it was amazon everything, LFS could buy products and sell them for a decent markup, especially if the LFS had a good install base, but now as you mentioned it's impossible. I don't even know how these online guys make any money on as you say "products with a plug" I looked into some of the wholesale pricing and when you factor in packaging, online fees/transaction, shipping, etc. there isn't much there. I guess the big guys can do the volume and it allows people to buy other things that might have a higher margin.
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post #33 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 04:21 PM
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@Asteroid Even back in the day before amazonia when the big two pet box stores started expanding around the country we still only had a markup of about 10% on anything aquatic related supply wise. Fish were marked up more but with the losses it was probably still about that. Now dog food, cat food, related fur pet supplies was another story. Could actually have a little higher markup on that stuff and it moved much quicker then anything else.

My parents augmented the store with dog grooming for a while and then raising rats/mice. Eventually we were probably the last primary fish store in the area (all the others had closed down except the big Ps) and they finally sold the store. The buyers ran it into the ground and closed up a year or so later. My dad kept up with the raising rodents and delivers them all over northern half of his state. It works out alright for him but its not how shall we say it a "glamorous job" lol.
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post #34 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 04:28 PM
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Best place I've been buying from is local aquaria society auctions / members of local groups.

Tons of old filters to be found that are of good use.

Tanks / heaters / lights are in rough shape, but the filters in my area that people part ways with are always in decent shape, good way to keep things affordable and local vendors / Ma and Pa shops are always present and active at the events.
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post #35 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 04:28 PM
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@Asteroid Even back in the day before amazonia when the big two pet box stores started expanding around the country we still only had a markup of about 10% on anything aquatic related supply wise. Fish were marked up more but with the losses it was probably still about that. Now dog food, cat food, related fur pet supplies was another story. Could actually have a little higher markup on that stuff and it moved much quicker then anything else.

My parents augmented the store with dog grooming for a while and then raising rats/mice. Eventually we were probably the last primary fish store in the area (all the others had closed down except the big Ps) and they finally sold the store. The buyers ran it into the ground and closed up a year or so later. My dad kept up with the raising rodents and delivers them all over northern half of his state. It works out alright for him but its not how shall we say it a "glamorous job" lol.
Oh yeah i totally agree. I wasn't implying the markup was great, now it doesn't exist at all. I know most stores use their floor space for dog/cat since they have no choice. Now even the big Ps are feeling Amazon. I buy my dog-related stuff on Amazon's subscribe and save, way cheaper than the chains. Petsmart is doing the same concept with their Chewy.com


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post #36 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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That internal filter is from a very reputable company, I've contemplated grabbing a Oase Biomaster canister on more than one occasion, but they're pricey! The built in heater and option for a built in UV can be tempting...

I've not done internal filters because in order to hide them, you likely end up obstructing flow. I've always preferred canister with glass lily pipes. Glass will require frequent cleaning, however.
Yeah looking at the bigger canister filters they do seem a bit pricey. With the smaller internal filters they're still a few notches higher but the monetary difference isn't too bad. I like the idea of having the heater built in, bodes well for a cleaner tank and better cable management. Haven't seen lily pipes before entering this forum, seems like a thing in NA. At first I thought it was a co² diffuser of some sort. I can see why people like it, myself I prefer a black spraybar.

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My Gucci internal filters are the Tunze Comline Nano 3161 units. I am not currently running them, but I will use AquaClear 20 foam in them on my next try. They are much bigger than the MF10 units, but have skimming ability. However, they are very sensitive to water level.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...community.html

I just love discussing filters because they are not tied to a specific tank strategy.

I have never run HOB filters, but this one suggested by @Discusluv looks very nice and minimal:

https://www.amazon.com/Dymax-Slim-Aq...s%2C181&sr=1-1


Everything else looks big and asymmetrical, but this unit looks small and symmetrical. I will probably buy a few to test in my utility tanks.

Cheers
HOB does have some appealing qualities but won't work for me as my tank will end up near a wall and it'll be too visible if I put it on either of the sides.


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Most filters last a pretty long time, so the price difference is really negligible. Many can do the job but I would really go with an Eheim. Proven, easy parts availability, hose compatibility with lily pipes.

GPH to me is less important in planted, since most of the filtration is in the tank, as opposed to a fish only tank where your moving large waste to the filter. Not as important in planted IMO, unless your going to have many fish and just a few plants.
Fully agree with you. I've done the mistake many times before of buying something cheap, then not be satisfied so I went back to get the original equipment I thought was too expensive at first.

Yeah I plan to add a powerhead anyway (may run it on a timer) so the actual circulation in the water column won't be an issue. Besides, prefer to have at least two sources of movement as to prevent dead areas.

That seems to be a brand mainly available down under, couldn't really find any of them close by here and haven't seen them before. This time around I'm gonna stick with well-known reputable brands if I go for a canister.
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post #37 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 06:08 PM
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Now dog food, cat food, related fur pet supplies was another story. Could actually have a little higher markup on that stuff and it moved much quicker then anything else.
Interesting, dog and cat food are super low markup, at least as long as I've sold it. If I sell a bag for $12.50, I paid $10 bucks for it before any delivery fees, fuel surcharges, etc. I get that it's bought frequently, but it does go out of date, bags tear, etc. On two occasions I've hired customers for weekend help and both times they were excited to get dog food at cost -until they saw cost. "That's IT?!?" was exclaimed both times!


What categorizes as a loss leader varies for every store but it's somewhere around 20-25% for me. So I basically sell dog food for what it costs me after overhead. Treats are a little better at 50% markup, and collars, leashes, beds and so forth can sometimes be as much as 75%, depending on the brand. I could drive for Uber and make more money than I do selling pet supplies, but I love my job and meet dogs every day.


Edit:
Just looked up the prices of an Eheim 2217 since I had been considering one for myself. Amazon price: $96.21



Wholesaler pricing, $122.84!


I should show this to the next person who asks why I don't carry Eheim.
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Last edited by Blue Ridge Reef; 01-30-2020 at 08:08 PM. Reason: didn't want to further sidetrack thread
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post #38 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 06:12 PM
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Best place I've been buying from is local aquaria society auctions / members of local groups.

Tons of old filters to be found that are of good use.

Tanks / heaters / lights are in rough shape, but the filters in my area that people part ways with are always in decent shape, good way to keep things affordable and local vendors / Ma and Pa shops are always present and active at the events.
Great place to buy fish as well. Primarily Central American/African lake cichlids, livebearers, some corydoras species, and ancistrus plecos. Healthier stock, less problems with antibiotic resistance, more fertile fish.
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post #39 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 06:20 PM
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I like the idea of having the heater built in, bodes well for a cleaner tank and better cable management. Haven't seen lily pipes before entering this forum, seems like a thing in NA. At first I thought it was a co² diffuser of some sort. I can see why people like it, myself I prefer a black spraybar.
FYI Many people use this inline heater. Kinda pricy though.

Lily pipes usually go hand in hand when people use rimless tanks for that ADA look, but not vital more aesthetic, but there is function to them as it's easy to create a slight swirl on the water's surface for gas exchange.


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post #40 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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FYI Many people use this inline heater. Kinda pricy though.

Lily pipes usually go hand in hand when people use rimless tanks for that ADA look, but not vital more aesthetic, but there is function to them as it's easy to create a slight swirl on the water's surface for gas exchange.
Bit pricey yes but an inventive way of hiding it. I had a quick search for whats available over here, seems they carreid the same brand but smallest size was 300W. Out of precaution I won't get that, if there's a malfunction it'll fry the whole tank as it's way oversized. I'll keep the option in mind though.
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post #41 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 07:43 PM
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FWIW, I have a Fluval 107 at my feet under my desk. Im super particular about noise when I'm working and was worried this would be distracting. It's so quiet that I mistake it for my computer fan. Im constantly looking over at the tank to make sure its on and there's flow.
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post #42 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, I have a Fluval 107 at my feet under my desk. Im super particular about noise when I'm working and was worried this would be distracting. It's so quiet that I mistake it for my computer fan. Im constantly looking over at the tank to make sure its on and there's flow.
Very good to hear about some hands-on experience! Still undecided on canister vs inline, so many things to consider. Think inline has the edge at the moment, just due to the storage situation and that it'll likely be quieter, even if canister will possibly be ok too.
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post #43 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 09:11 PM
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Very good to hear about some hands-on experience! Still undecided on canister vs inline, so many things to consider. Think inline has the edge at the moment, just due to the storage situation and that it'll likely be quieter, even if canister will possibly be ok too.
2211 or 2213 from Eheim is dead nuts silent... after a week of running any Eheim accept an ancient very well used one I bought for $30, I had to look to see if water was actually moving, couldn't hear it.

Canister offers more value than an inline in my opinion, more options for future modifications, growth, add on's etc.
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post #44 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 11:32 PM
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Very good to hear about some hands-on experience! Still undecided on canister vs inline, so many things to consider. Think inline has the edge at the moment, just due to the storage situation and that it'll likely be quieter, even if canister will possibly be ok too.

I run a Fluval 107 on a 45p in my bedroom. The filter is not in a stand or cabinet and it is dead silent. Moved to the 107 from a Eheim 2011 for increased flow. The Fluval is quieter than the Eheim.



I own several brands but recently bought the 107 and a 307. My experience so far with Fluval is great. They are probably my go to from now on.


Over there look into Sicce. I also run a Whale 200 that is a great filter. Very quiet with a lot of nice features.
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post #45 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 12:15 AM
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[QUOTE=Blue Ridge Reef;11303069]Interesting, dog and cat food are super low markup, at least as long as I've sold it. If I sell a bag for $12.50, I paid $10 bucks for it before any delivery fees, fuel surcharges, etc. I get that it's bought frequently, but it does go out of date, bags tear, etc. On two occasions I've hired customers for weekend help and both times they were excited to get dog food at cost -until they saw cost. "That's IT?!?" was exclaimed both times!


What categorizes as a loss leader varies for every store but it's somewhere around 20-25% for me. So I basically sell dog food for what it costs me after overhead. Treats are a little better at 50% markup, and collars, leashes, beds and so forth can sometimes be as much as 75%, depending on the brand. I could drive for Uber and make more money than I do selling pet supplies, but I love my job and meet dogs every day.


This was back in the late 80s early 90s so both my memory could of been a bit faulty from those teenage years and or it was a little different back then. Heck we still had our wholesale reps that would drive up usually from hours away to peddle the companies new merchandise and setup the orders for supplies and fish for the following week.
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