Sump or canister in this case? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Sump or canister in this case?

I'm looking at a 95 or 120g tank, well-planted high tech with swarms of small fish and inverts. I want the minimum amount of equipment practical in the tank and water as clear as possible. I have no experience with sumps but several have recommended them highly here and on youtube. One strong exception with some telling points is Build Your Own Custom Aquarium Filter Sump | Advanced Aquarium Concepts

Sump:
- any thoughts on a wet/dry sump vs. using K2 as described elsewhere in the link?
- would i need one or two overflows?
- can i screen the overflows a few inches down to make rescuing lost fish easier?
- is there a way to protect fish that go down the outflow pipe to a wet/dry system? I imagine they'd be pretty beaten up.
- are floating plants and overflows mutually exclusive choices?
- is there any advantage to creating a purigen reactor loop in the pump stage?
- I assume the pressurized CO2 joins the system via a barbed hose connection between the pump and the returns. Correct?

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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
I'm looking at a 95 or 120g tank, well-planted high tech with swarms of small fish and inverts. I want the minimum amount of equipment practical in the tank and water as clear as possible. I have no experience with sumps but several have recommended them highly here and on youtube. One strong exception with some telling points is Build Your Own Custom Aquarium Filter Sump | Advanced Aquarium Concepts



Sump:

- any thoughts on a wet/dry sump vs. using K2 as described elsewhere in the link?

- would i need one or two overflows?

- can i screen the overflows a few inches down to make rescuing lost fish easier?

- is there a way to protect fish that go down the outflow pipe to a wet/dry system? I imagine they'd be pretty beaten up.

- are floating plants and overflows mutually exclusive choices?

- is there any advantage to creating a purigen reactor loop in the pump stage?

- I assume the pressurized CO2 joins the system via a barbed hose connection between the pump and the returns. Correct?


Subíd as Iím getting ready to start a 300 gallon planted tank with a remote sump. I am doing a coast to coast ghost overflow.

I really like your stocking ideas with small fish and heavily planted. From my reefing days I can tell you that small fish WILL get into the overflow and it is a huge pain to get them out of it. I finally just let one guy live in it permanently. The ghost overflow is fairly shallow making it easier to get fish out of it!


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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 03:51 AM
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Me too. I'm going back and forth on the idea of using a sump on a 140g with 1 - 3" tetras.
I have an overflow cover and am more concerned with plant matter clogging.
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 12:42 PM
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Sorry no experience yet but I am planning a 120 with a sump using K1 micro (which is sized for aquariums as opposed to ponds) planning to use bean animal overflow without the actual overflow (just pipes in the tank) reefers are more concerned with surface skimming than we are so just skipping the overflow. I am planning to just use filter socks for mechanical and use the moving bed for all biological. Haven't done it yet so can't tell you how it works yet.

If you have a compartment of just water when your line first enters the sump you can catch any fish that come down. Then have a wall separating the next compartment that is the wet dry. Water flows over the wall and that's how you get your filtering. Going straight to a wet dry would definitely kill any fish that go for the ride.
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 02:48 PM
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I think I can help all of you. I've built some large reef systems over the past 20 years , all with sumps.

I currently use a sump on a 60 gallon planted tank. I have never had a small fish fall in the over flow. You just have to get the right overflow. Take a look at Glass Holes Overflows. They are as invisible as an overflow can be and have an internal baffle system which silences the water flow. Small fish cannot fall in because you stack pieces of bailing to cover the entire height of the slots.

Regarding filter media, use a clay media called Hydroton and fit as much of it in your sump as you can. It is dirt cheap compared to other filter media and excellent bio media.

Regarding Co2 and circulation back to the tank. Since you'll have a sump incorporate a Rex Griggs reactor on your return along with a Variable Speed DC pump such as those made by Waveline. A variable speed pump will allow you to dial in the flow in your tank without adding powerheads. Also you can split the return lines to opposite corners of your tank to help with flow.

In my 60 gallon high tech the only things that show in the tank are the small 2" x 5" profile of the overflow on a side wall( less noticeable than on back wall ) and two locline nozzles to control flow.
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 07:16 PM
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For anything over 90g. My vote is Sump hands down. Sump needs to be about 1/3 the volume of the display My tank is aWaterbox 190.5 141g display- 55g sump. If you setup the overflow as either a Herbie or a Bean Animal you'll be able to "tune it for th quietest operation. I run an inline CO2diffuser with the output directed to the influx of the return pump.
If you like the sound of drtipping water you'll like a wet/dry, otherwise they get noisy.

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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Bean Animal sounds interesting, but the tank I'm considering is an Aqueon 120g with two overflows already installed. Anyone have input on its noise output?

Overflow boxes on the back or sides aren't an option; otherwise I'd have to downgrade to a 90g to make it fit the alcove I have in mind for the tank. I do appreciate the suggestions.

How does a Rex Grigg reactor compare with something like a Sera Flore 500? Sorry, the formatting for the link isn't coming through properly.

Canisters can sometimes accumulate CO2 bubbles if introduced upstream; can return pumps?

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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 10:36 PM
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"How does a Rex Grigg reactor compare with something like a Sera Flore 500?"

Im not sure what that is. The Griggs reactor is know for 100% co2 dissolution as long as it is designed right, meaning the length versus flow. No bubbles in the tank. As a bonus, make it out of clear PVC and you can watch it work!
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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https://www.amazon.com/Sera-Flore-Ac...s%2C153&sr=8-1

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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minorhero View Post
reefers are more concerned with surface skimming than we are so just skipping the overflow.
I don't think this is right. In a planted tank you do very much need to skim your surface
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 01:43 AM
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I don't think this is right. In a planted tank you do very much need to skim your surface
The film that will inevitably grow on the surface inhibits gas exchange. Skimming also allows you to run much higher CO2 rates.
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 03:41 AM
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Skimming not only promotes gas exchange it aids in incorporating oxygenated surface water into the rest of the water column. This will also occur at every place where a waterfall effect happens across a baffle in the sump.

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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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1. The LFS personnel I've spoken with have all been politely baffled why I would want a planted tank with an overflow, always citing CO2 loss. I'm moving away from a wet/dry configuration to one with more filtration media but am concerned about the need for more O2 without materially lowering the CO2.

2. This is now going to be a peninsula tank, still with the absolute minimum amount of equipment in the tank, powerheads in this case. How strong a pump do I need to get coverage the length of the tank (nominally 48")?

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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:07 AM
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just slap a lid on your sump, it'll reduce some co2 off gassing.

I burn through 20lbs of co2 on average of 104~105 days, I inject about 100 cc/min of co2 for 8hrs a day.

If I had the opportunity to redo my sump this is what I would of went with, at least the far right sections.


the far right section ensures silence if your pipes exit deep enough into the water level, heavier detritus would also land here and lighter ones will flow over the baffle to the filter sock/pad.

if any fish does end up going into the overflow at least it'll end up in the far right. you also wont be degassing as hard since the pipes won't be splashing.

Anything between that 2nd baffle from the right to your return pump you can throw w/e media you want imo, foam blocks, etc.


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Last edited by SingAlongWithTsing; 06-10-2019 at 02:23 AM. Reason: ...
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
1. The LFS personnel I've spoken with have all been politely baffled why I would want a planted tank with an overflow, always citing CO2 loss. I'm moving away from a wet/dry configuration to one with more filtration media but am concerned about the need for more O2 without materially lowering the CO2.




2. This is now going to be a peninsula tank, still with the absolute minimum amount of equipment in the tank, powerheads in this case. How strong a pump do I need to get coverage the length of the tank (nominally 48")?

Read through this. Hard to argue with results. After I did I felt much better about the gas exchange levels in a sump.

https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/gas_exchange.html

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