sump for FW tanks? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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sump for FW tanks?

so once again I need a little help here getting the right size and type of filter set up.

so i know most ppl go with canister filters in FW tanks but coming from reefs where sumps are nice to have I am thinking of building one for a 40br planted tank I have an extra new 10gal tank around a return pump hell I might even have an over flow box. be nice to have the heater out of the DT.

so school me on sumps for FW planted tanks ! I hope to run Co2 will a sump o2 the h2o to much for the Co2 to be effective?

if not how should I build it? a trickle filter or just lots of media then buble trap then return pump?

any pro and cons I should be aware of?
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 07:47 PM
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Sumps are awesome. I just use poret foam in mine. CO2 will gas out the more baffles trickles and splashing you have going on. My water enters a mesh filter sock on the left, goes through two 3" walls of Poret foam and return pump on the right side with the heater. No bubble issues unless I run it too low

There's literally days of cool sump threads to search through too and steal ideas from haha
Here's one of my favorites: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12...-refugium.html
And another: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12...aquariums.html


Also a CO2 reactor down there will help make CO2 more efficient

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayakJimW View Post
Sumps are awesome. I just use poret foam in mine. CO2 will gas out the more baffles trickles and splashing you have going on. My water enters a mesh filter sock on the left, goes through two 3" walls of Poret foam and return pump on the right side with the heater. No bubble issues unless I run it too low

There's literally days of cool sump threads to search through too and steal ideas from haha


Also a CO2 reactor down there will help make CO2 more efficient
What porosity poret foam are you using with yours? What size tank and sump? Are you using any baffles at all or just using the foam sheets?

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 07:56 PM
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I'm a big fan of sumps too. They're especially great if you like to fiddle with things because it's so easy to get into them. I don't do CO2, but as said elsewhere, with a reactor you can mitigate the downsides of offgassing for the most part.


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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 08:24 PM
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What porosity poret foam are you using with yours? What size tank and sump? Are you using any baffles at all or just using the foam sheets?

Cheers
Had to go back through email receipts to be sure! It's one 3" sheet of 10ppi (pores per inch) first, then one 3" sheet of 30ppi right behind it. It's a 20 gallon long under a 90 gallon tank. No baffles, its literally just: a 4" diameter filter sock (mesh, not felt) hung on the side> Poret slabs> open space with heater and return pump. I found the mesh sock useful for catching leaf bits and whatnot, reducing the frequency of cleaning the Poret. I replaced my wet/dry tower of bio balls with Poret in late May. A month or so later I cleaned the Poret and installed the filter sock. Haven't touched the Poret since. Occasionally I net out adventurous Amano shrimps that find their way down there, and swap filter socks every month or so... The cool thing about Poret is you can just glance at it and see if the water is higher on the entry side than the return pump side. If they're the same its all good. If entry side gets higher than return side, then it's getting clogged and impeding flow = time to clean

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 08:36 PM
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I started with a sump on my 125. didn't like it at all. Could not make the downflow quiet no matter what I did, transparent acrylic overflow was getting really dirty inside quick. Having heaters out of view was nice but they shed quite some scale while working in our hard water, and that scale ended up in the tank . Probably needed to separate pump and heater compartment with yet another filter . I couldn't get rid of the tiny scale particles floating allover.
I did like the spray bar outflow on it though but overall I enjoy the pair of hassle free ac110 HOBs . I want to get a larger canister something like fx6 before I forget CO2 in this tank

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 08:47 PM
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sump for FW tanks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by underH20garden View Post
so once again I need a little help here getting the right size and type of filter set up.

so i know most ppl go with canister filters in FW tanks but coming from reefs where sumps are nice to have I am thinking of building one for a 40br planted tank I have an extra new 10gal tank around a return pump hell I might even have an over flow box. be nice to have the heater out of the DT.

so school me on sumps for FW planted tanks ! I hope to run Co2 will a sump o2 the h2o to much for the Co2 to be effective?

if not how should I build it? a trickle filter or just lots of media then buble trap then return pump?

any pro and cons I should be aware of?

Well all I can say is I purchased my Aqua oak tank from a reefer and as I was a newb I had no choice to go with the sump set up ha ha. I've enjoyed the benefits of having the cleaner look whilst having my heater, bio media, foams, apex probes hidden.

The sump is 3 stage in order or overflow into chamber 1 where a coarse foam then fine foam sit. The baffle is an over into the middle chamber where I have lots of siporax (reduce nitrAtes) and heaters, then my bubble trap into final chamber where return pump is.

I'm awaiting my regulator to arrive from @co2art, so I can work out my best method of achieving best dissolved CO2 into my water column. It's either a DIY reactor or just simply diffuser at intake of return pump.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 11:41 PM
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In dealing with under-tank sump filters, you basically have a choice between two types, or some combination of the two.

The first and simplest type is simply a box (or tank) that often contains a filter sock at the output end of a gravity fed overflow system from the aquarium above to trap large particles, then mechanical filter medium, usually in progressively smaller grades and layered vertically, that catches finer and finer particles from the water as it passes horizontally through to the last area that holds a pump, which returns the filtered water to the aquarium above. Other stages of filtration, such as chemical (as with activated carbon) and biological (as with "bio-balls" or other platform for bacterial growth) are often added after the mechanical filtration. The final area often contains other components, such as a heater, water parameter sensors or other systems that further condition the filtered water (such as adding CO2) before it's returned to the aquarium. A shielded in-line ultraviolet light unit is sometimes inserted between the return pump and the aquarium to further "sterilize" or "clarify" the water to one degree or another.

The second type of sump filtration is the "wet/dry" system, the purpose of which is to saturate the water with as much oxygen as possible so that the growth and activity of nitrifying bacteria is greatly enhanced. The various methods for doing this involve systems where water is passed through stages of filtration similar to those mentioned above, with the difference being that the water is dispersed over the filter medium in droplets or thin sheets, which creates vastly more water surface area, allowing for better gas exchange between the water and air. (This natural gas exchange normally increases the oxygen level and decreases the carbon dioxide level of the water.) The methods of doing this include towers, where the water is dripped through horizontal layers of filter medium (with air spaces between the layers) so that the medium remains wet, but not submerged (hence "wet/dry"), or some other means of achieving the same goal.

A sort of "hybrid" of these two systems is achieved by creating chambers of the different filter mediums separated by baffles. The water flows over and under these baffles and through the filter medium, causing turbulence at the surface between the chambers, which results in enhanced gas exchange. While the oxygenation effect and resulting "supercharging" of the bacterial colony is not as great as with the true "wet/dry" system, increased oxygenation and its benefits still occur to some degree.

The wet/dry system is often used with marine aquariums, where a constant high oxygen environment and intense biological filtration are desired to maintain the highest levels of water quality demanded by many ocean-dwelling species. This type of system may also be desirable for a freshwater aquarium in which the focus is on the fauna, and most or all of the flora is strictly decorative and artificial.

In a freshwater planted aquarium, the focus may be evenly divided between flora and fauna, or even skewed more or mainly toward the plants. In this case, a high-oxygen, low-carbon dioxide environment is not preferable, due to the plants' need for carbon dioxide, so the first type of filter is usually chosen because it does not off-gas carbon dioxide through accelerated gas exchange before the water is returned to the aquarium, plus the fact that the breakdown or removal of waste products from the water that is usually thought of as the domain of the beneficial bacteria is, in part, assisted by the plants (and, in fact, the plants benefit from doing this), so the extreme activity of the larger beneficial bacterial colony is not needed.

I think that boils it down to the basics of sump filtration, although having a part of the aquarium environment located out of sight and in a space of it's own also allows for many other options.

Olskule.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 01:31 AM
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This is my sump. Ignore the reef skimmer. That suspended brick in the middle is a brightwell xport bio brick. Water goes from return through that built-in manifold and falls on top of it making making the brick function like a wet/dry housing aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. The main section where the skimmer is just going to have the co2 reactor. The built-in media reactor is going to have purigen in it like I put in all my canister filters.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 06:23 AM Thread Starter
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Ah thanks for the feed back guys. I have always had sumps on my reef tanks except my little nano 20l with a AC 50
I do enjoy the sound of the water trickling back to the tank so might get a cheap one just for sound effects haaha

ok so as long as i dont over o2 the water a sump should be good on a FW planted tank? my idea was in to filter fiber(poly floss) then in sponge to bio media prob. lava rock? with bags of other media if need be the bubble trap then return...

if/when I run Co2 the best way would be an inline diffuser? basically I am debating on a 10gal sump on a 40br DT or a Ehiem pro 4 250
kinda want to keep this tank some what simple but have success to. I under stand sumps more then canisters at this point.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underH20garden View Post
Ah thanks for the feed back guys. I have always had sumps on my reef tanks except my little nano 20l with a AC 50
I do enjoy the sound of the water trickling back to the tank so might get a cheap one just for sound effects haaha

ok so as long as i dont over o2 the water a sump should be good on a FW planted tank? my idea was in to filter fiber(poly floss) then in sponge to bio media prob. lava rock? with bags of other media if need be the bubble trap then return...

if/when I run Co2 the best way would be an inline diffuser? basically I am debating on a 10gal sump on a 40br DT or a Ehiem pro 4 250
kinda want to keep this tank some what simple but have success to. I under stand sumps more then canisters at this point.
A sump should work fine, provided you keep in mind the aspects I mentioned above. And I know next to nothing about high tech (CO2), but from what I've read on this forum, yeah, I think an inline diffuser would work well on the return line.

As for sump or canister filter, sumps have their strong points, but then, so do canister filters. One of the main advantages that canister filters have over sumps, is that most modern ones can be easily disconnected with extremely little spillage and removed to a different area–bathtub, utility room, or even outside–and serviced without making a mess in your tank's display area. Of course, with a sump, you can transfer whatever part you're servicing–be it pump, medium, whatever–into a large plastic tote and take it elsewhere, too, but I think there's more of a risk of making a mess; the canister filter remains sealed until you get to where you're taking it. On the other hand, canister filters are more prone to develop leaks than sumps, and you are a bit more limited in what (and how much of it) you can add to a canister filter. It's just a matter of weighing the pros and cons and what features you prefer.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 10:31 AM
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Use a 20g long instead of a 10 if you go sump..
There is not much room for equipment or evaporation in a 10g..You will have to constantly top off..
I use a sump on my 180g.It was planted once with CO2.
I used a reactor in the sump with its output next to the return pump for sump.
It worked very well but I used more co2 then most I think to achieve saturation.

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 10:38 AM
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Use a 20g long instead of a 10 if you go sump..

There is not much room for equipment or evaporation in a 10g..You will have to constantly top off..

I use a sump on my 180g.It was planted once with CO2.

I used a reactor in the sump with its output next to the return pump for sump.

It worked very well but I used more co2 then most I think to achieve saturation.

Just what I was waiting for, somebody that had such a set up. Do you have pics on the sump setup you had? Or reactor build? I'm in the same boat looking to set up CO2 via my sump


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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotashes View Post
Just what I was waiting for, somebody that had such a set up. Do you have pics on the sump setup you had? Or reactor build? I'm in the same boat looking to set up CO2 via my sump
I have a couple pics of my sump I'm prepping. I've added high tech notations to help clear up what's being seen. Everything is still being readied and the sump has some leftover saltwater scum left on it. There is an inline heater, a UV reactor, Co2 reactor, and plenty of room for more equipment or I can always add in extra filter media. The "front" chamber with the UV and Co2 is fed by it's own pump from the drain chamber. Between the drain chamber and return chamber are baffles.



The CO2 reactor will dump right into the return pumps chamber so as much CO2 can get to the display tank as saturated as possible.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by hotashes View Post
Just what I was waiting for, somebody that had such a set up. Do you have pics on the sump setup you had? Or reactor build? I'm in the same boat looking to set up CO2 via my sump


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My sumps are always overboard...The 180 has a Marineland model 4 water bridged with 2" pvc to a 29g for added volume .
I had the ph controller sensor in the marinelands body and pump with reactor in my 29 discharging next to return pump.
This measured PH at the point it would be the lowest and installed it where it was sent directly to tank. I kept a drop checker in tank.
I used sera and ista reactors.. When you place them in sump leaks don't matter much so for the money the ista is nice..The sera was about 4x as much .
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