Sump or Canister? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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I can see the sump versis canister debate is full swing. (grin)

Basically both work very well. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I will also add that when I look at DIY sumps I designs that range from fantastic to ones that I would consider garbage.

A sump is going to require a lot planning with more plumbing and an overflow of some sort, and a decent return pump.

The choice comes down to what do you want out of your system? You can build a case for either, and be right.

Since you have never done a sump before, your best course of action might be to set one up using a comparatively small tank first. Something like 20 gal or so would work well. Then learn on that, keeping in mind that it's a lot easier to clean up a flood from that compared to a 150 gal tank.

This brings up another thought. How large a tank are you planning? On smaller tanks a sump is often not cost effective for what you will get out of it. You can still use one, but you'll go through all that work mostly for bragging rights and a marginal improvement.
75g minimum. Haven't pulled the trigger yet but Ive always been unhappy with the limited space of a 55g. I was just never able to get the depth that I wanted in my scapes

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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 02:49 PM
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75g minimum. Haven't pulled the trigger yet but Ive always been unhappy with the limited space of a 55g. I was just never able to get the depth that I wanted in my scapes
I'd say that with a 75 gal tank you can go either way. On my 90 gal I use an Eheim Pro 3e on it, but if I were doing it again, I'd seriously consider a sump.

I quite agree with you about the 55 gal tank. The frontal area is great and that's what makes them popular, but I think that because the tank is only 12 inches wide, doing a good aquascape is very difficult. I feel it's a poor choice for most aquarium setups.
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Lot of generalizations about sumps that are not necessarily true.

You can design a sump with laminar flow that is both dead silent and has minimal off gassing.
If your sump overflows in a power outage you designed it wrong.

I have a coast to coast skimmer to an external bean animal to a 29 gallon sump.
It can't overflow the sump in a power outage and the only thing I hear in the living room is the SunSun canister running on the other aquarium.
Love it. How would you make the laminar flow? Fill the pvc with airline?

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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 04:42 PM
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You can design a sump with laminar flow that is both dead silent and has minimal off gassing.
Yes. But that would immediately kill almost every single advantage a sump might possibly have over a canister.

Last edited by AndreyT; 02-27-2017 at 10:24 PM. Reason: typo
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 05:20 PM
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a properly set up sump should be a lot easier to deal with in the long run

i run a reactor off of one of my EHEIM 2217 and the flow is reduced by quite a bit. wish i had a sump for reasons stated above


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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 05:57 PM
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The closest thing to laminar flow in a sump, that I can imagine, would be a baffleless sump. The best way to set that up would be using eggcrate to hold up some of the media and poret foam. The water would flow silently through it. Not ideal in my opinion. That's how my last sump was setup and I wasn't a fan of the overall ease of maintenance and such. If you can't handle the sound of baffles splashing, I suggest not using a sump. The noise is minimal. After you add lids and a cabinet, it's pretty quiet.
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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Well. Thanks for your help everyone. I had my heart set on a sump but just landed a deal on a 125g glass tank and I dont trust myself to drill it. Sorry to waste all of your time.

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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 11:47 PM
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Well. Thanks for your help everyone. I had my heart set on a sump but just landed a deal on a 125g glass tank and I dont trust myself to drill it. Sorry to waste all of your time.
Two options, pay a local fish store or glass store to drill it or punk out and buy canisters.
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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 11:51 PM
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Why not both? I'm currently running a 210 gph canister and a 490 gph diy sump.
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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:44 AM
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A pair of Fluval FX4s would top that off really nice on your new tank...
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post #26 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:57 AM
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Can someone post a youtube of these quiet sumps? I gave it a try, but even the quiet designs I tried you could hear the trickle of of the water. An eheim canister filter is dead silent. That was the deal breaker for me. For me a sump is superior because it excels at oxygenating the system. I've got a used sump system in the for sale forum.
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post #27 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 01:12 AM
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Can someone post a youtube of these quiet sumps? I gave it a try, but even the quiet designs I tried you could hear the trickle of of the water. An eheim canister filter is dead silent. That was the deal breaker for me. For me a sump is superior because it excels at oxygenating the system.
A sump is superior at oxygenating specifically because is perturbs the stream and does a lot of splashing. And this is why it makes noise and also intensively outgasses CO2. The moment you make your sump laminar and quiet is the moment it stops being superior at oxygenating.
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post #28 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 01:50 AM
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A pair of Fluval FX4s would top that off really nice on your new tank...
That filtration setup alone is about the total cost I have into my current tank build.

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Can someone post a youtube of these quiet sumps? I gave it a try, but even the quiet designs I tried you could hear the trickle of of the water. An eheim canister filter is dead silent. That was the deal breaker for me. For me a sump is superior because it excels at oxygenating the system. I've got a used sump system in the for sale forum.
You won't find what you are looking for. Sumps have some noise no matter what. They can be extremely quiet, but if the sound of surface agitation annoys you, sumps make about that much noise. If you are use to canisters with returns under the water, no surface agitation, etc, it will be noisy. There is a sound of running water because it isn't a closed system.


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post #29 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 05:05 AM
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Can someone post a youtube of these quiet sumps? I gave it a try, but even the quiet designs I tried you could hear the trickle of of the water. An eheim canister filter is dead silent. That was the deal breaker for me. For me a sump is superior because it excels at oxygenating the system. I've got a used sump system in the for sale forum.
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You won't find what you are looking for. Sumps have some noise no matter what. They can be extremely quiet, but if the sound of surface agitation annoys you, sumps make about that much noise. If you are use to canisters with returns under the water, no surface agitation, etc, it will be noisy. There is a sound of running water because it isn't a closed system.

NOOOO!!!!

ADJUST with gate valve precision.
NO NOISE.

Below - The Emergency standpipe is waiting for an issue with the normal operation of flow.





The Herbie drainpipe method used for 2 holes typically in the aquarium (1 norm, 1 emergency).
The Bean Animal drainpipe method for the aquarium exit holes and now with 3 drains out.

The pipes have a lot to do with the sound.
These two methods (above) have dead silent sound once controlled with a gate valve.

The Pump is where the sound is coming from at times.

Control the sound vibration issues by using a DC controllable pump OverSized and turned down a little bit to control the noise of the harmonics of a pump on high.
Sometimes the sound issue is the dampening of the pump by using additional silicon rubber feet.

The trickle area of a filter is a area of interest too.
The porosity of foam used in a stack vertically does change the sound as well.

Being able to tune the sump noise from pumps and pipes the key.
There is a silent sump.

My computer fan sounding noise on my Kessil light is the only noise now.




BELOW IS A link to a GHOST OVERFLOW.
This is a very new method of doing things with the water and eliminating noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1efoFItRq8


Even the cheesy open sump design below is not complete and is still silent.
The only noise comes from the stack of sponges in the 1st part. That can be adjusted by moving the sponge closer to the falling water. It should be simple common sense.

I still see plenty of air bubbles running toward the sump foam to aid in biological bacteria.
I have other posts over the forum on quiet sumps.



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post #30 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 05:14 AM
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I'm running a sump on my 45g reef with a 30g long sump, also running a sump on my wife's 28g bowfront goldfish with a 20g high sump. Both setups are herbie style, on the reef I only hear my protein skimmer, on the goldfish I can only hear the return pump if I stick my head in the cabinet.


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