Best way to inject CO2 with sump - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Best way to inject CO2 with sump

EDIT: I've decided to go with a closed loop cerges. Please see post #7 for more questions.

I am setting up a 58g tank with overflow and 20g sump (no baffles). I've never used a sump with CO2 before. I was just going to use my DIY inline reactor but it would need to be rebuilt to go where I need it go. So if I'm going to have to change things anyways I'm wondering about any other options for diffusing. I love that the inline reactor creates no bubbles in the main tank, that it is very efficient and there is no extra equipment in the tank, plus the cheap price tag of course! I don't like that it reduces flow though.

Since we are here...I found out my last plastic check valve was 100% blocked (possibly what led to my nearly full tank emptying?) and now I need a new check valve. I am guessing stainless steel is the way to go? And this a decent deal?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A131SO7MHPCPON


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Last edited by myswtsins; 09-13-2016 at 07:55 PM. Reason: added info
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 12:49 AM
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I don't know if it's the best way, but a closed loop with a cerges reactor and a very low volume pump is working quite well in the sump I have for my 125.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jaye View Post
I don't know if it's the best way, but a closed loop with a cerges reactor and a very low volume pump is working quite well in the sump I have for my 125.
By closed loop do you mean you are pumping water from the sump to the reactor and back to the sump?


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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 12:19 AM
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Exactly. Wanted to keep as much equipment out of the tank as possible. I suppose I could T the output into the return line - hmmm...
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly. Wanted to keep as much equipment out of the tank as possible. I suppose I could T the output into the return line - hmmm...
I was wondering the same thing! lol Thanks for sharing! Anyone else? I think this is the best method but more opinions are good!


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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 07:49 PM
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There are a few options for plumbing a sump reactor.

For lower flow applications you can just put the reactor inline with the return pump, much like you would do with a canister filter.

Once you start running more flow this becomes impractical since the bubbles will get blown straight through. In this situation the reactor should be provided with reduced flow (either a tee from the return line or a second pump) and can drain back into the sump.

You do not want to tee the reactor output back into the return line for a few reasons. Firstly, it becomes impossible to see how much water is actually flowing through the reactor.
Secondly, if you are using a second (smaller) pump to power the reactor it will likely be overpowered by the backpressure of a large return pump.
Finally, it complicates the plumbing for no reason - you only lose a bit of flow by dumping back into the sump. I'd rather buy a slightly bigger pump than glue in a bunch of tees, unions and elbows (I assume you want to remove the reactor for cleaning).


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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-12-2016, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I think I want a closed loop cerges. Basically I want to fed my CO2 directly into a 350 gph pump (owned) with modified impeller, have that water enter into my blue 20" filter housing (owned) in reverse so it enters into the pipe instead of the main housing. Here are the questions about that!

1. I have a 20" housing (this one) which I believe has a pressure release button. I noticed most people use a clear housing for obvious reasons but I already have this one and if air builds up I would be able to hear it right?

2. Normal or reverse flow - I've seen people do it both ways but mostly normal. A (normal) - water enters main housing, travels to the bottom and exits up through the middle pipe. B (reverse) - water enters through the center pipe, down and out through the main housing. Option B makes sense to me cause that smaller surface area means the CO2 is getting hit constantly, in option A if the CO2 bubbles would naturally be pushed to the opposite side of where the water is coming in and thus not be getting slammed by the water flowing in until the co2 built a bit to cover the entire top of the housing. Poor drawing attached.

3. Pump/CO2 Injection - What size pump do I want? Should I inject the CO2 INTO the pump to chop it up? Or better to inject inline after pump? Or directly into housing?

BTW I should mention I am not looking for 30ppm of CO2, more like 10-15 maybe so the amount of gas won't be large. Medium light tank with hardwater plants and fish so I want to keep the pH up above 7.0 which as far as I can tell means I need to keep the CO2 lowish. well water is pH - 8.2, KH - 10, GH - 10.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-13-2016, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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I would like to start building this ASAP since that tank I am installing it on is already running (without CO2) so any opinions would be great! Thanks!


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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-13-2016, 07:55 PM
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i have had success with the griggs-style reactors vs the cerges.


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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-13-2016, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by klibs View Post
i have had success with the griggs-style reactors vs the cerges.
Are you saying you've tried both and prefer griggs? I think I had good success with my inline griggs, I didn't gas any fish, no bubbles in the main tank, plants grew, my drop checker went green/yellow but I did have all sorts of algae that shouldn't have been in the same tank (opposite conditions required) but that could have been any imbalance.


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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-13-2016, 10:09 PM
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Gas buildup in a reactor won't reduce its effectiveness (since the gas is stuck until it dissolves), but it will make a splashing noise. If you chop the bubbles too finely they will pass through the reactor instead of hanging around.

I would personally run the bubbles through the pump to chop them up, and use normal flow so that the water going downwards is slow, allowing the small bubbles to dissolve.

I don't have any experience with that kind of reactor though.


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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-13-2016, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 691175002 View Post
Gas buildup in a reactor won't reduce its effectiveness (since the gas is stuck until it dissolves), but it will make a splashing noise. If you chop the bubbles too finely they will pass through the reactor instead of hanging around.

I would personally run the bubbles through the pump to chop them up, and use normal flow so that the water going downwards is slow, allowing the small bubbles to dissolve.

I don't have any experience with that kind of reactor though.
Sooo basically what I want to do is what you would do? Or are you saying 350 gph is above normal flow?

Edit : I got it! Normal as in entering the housing first (sorry had to re-read it a couple times lol). "That kind of reactor" referring to a cerges in general?

Edit: I tested my pump, which we all know ends up being less than "they" say but what they say IS the gph as we know and use it though. It is about 260 gph with almost 0 head.


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Last edited by myswtsins; 09-13-2016 at 11:26 PM. Reason: I'm dumb and added test results
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myswtsins View Post
Are you saying you've tried both and prefer griggs? I think I had good success with my inline griggs, I didn't gas any fish, no bubbles in the main tank, plants grew, my drop checker went green/yellow but I did have all sorts of algae that shouldn't have been in the same tank (opposite conditions required) but that could have been any imbalance.
Yes I made a cerges before my griggs and I could never get it to stop spitting bubbles into the tank. My griggs is huge and never does that.


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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 05:31 AM
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I have an 80G tank with a sump and use a cerges reactor on a closed loop in my sump to supply CO2. I use a Rio venturi pump for the reactor loop, injecting the CO2 directly into the venturi port on the pump. This chops of the CO2 bubble before they go into the cerges reactor. It works great for me.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AKnickolai View Post
I have an 80G tank with a sump and use a cerges reactor on a closed loop in my sump to supply CO2. I use a Rio venturi pump for the reactor loop, injecting the CO2 directly into the venturi port on the pump. This chops of the CO2 bubble before they go into the cerges reactor. It works great for me.
Thanks for your input! Do you have a picture of the loop? Mostly wondering how long the whole run is cause those pumps have pretty low gph, top was 211gph which is probably like 150 in reality. But for about $20 and already has the air intake port I'm super interested! You use a 20" cerges?


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