Sunsun canister flow problems? - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 03:02 AM
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This seems to be something that I see on a number of different types of equipment and not just in the tank/fish world but big important equipment as well. We buy a piece and then we find it works so we modify it to work even better!
But when things fail, do we look first at the mods we made or do we often find fault with the equipment we bought. My recommendation is that when we have something that works and then we change it and it doesn't work very well, don't blame the original equipment. Sometimes when we mod things, we need to be open to the fact that we might have screwed it up!
My favorite personal screwup? I changed the media in an Eheim 2217 and then found the flow would quit after a day or so???? Drove me crazy until I found my "new, improved and cheaper" media was floating up against the section where the water flow goes to the impeller!
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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 09:01 AM
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Yep, a quite effective and general way to track down problem is to check at the last change, or all the changes since the time your device (or software) worked nice.
However, it is not as straightforward when your changes introduce slow failure, you do not know how long you need to go back in time to find the change that was not a good idea. I had this sponge gard since a month, and did other changes in the mean time (installed inline heater, changed the valves and part of the tubing,...
Same in your case: if your flow was reduced just after your media change, you would get it immediately. If it happen a few days after, it's already more difficult to catch.

Installing a flow meter may be a good idea, I want to progressively log my tank better, goind the arduino way. This open a lot of possibilities, but even if i find the flow decreased i will not be able to solve the issue remotely. When I am home, I can not measure the absolute flow rate but any significant change can be seen without monitoring equipment.

So I need to install a more robust gard. Going no-gard is nice visually (I started like that), but the suction in the pipe inlet is too strong: it sucks in shrimplets, kill adult RCS by tearing them appart, and can potentially kill any fish that would block most of the slits. It's that strong...With the sponge, I got a non-dangerous inlet flow and the flow resistance is not excessive...at first.

I looked into shrimp inlet gards, looks like a good solution and even ordered cheap ones. They are not well built, and my inlet diameter is too big for all the gards I find online, even the expensive one. I will probably try to modifiy my cheap ones to make them fit, or try to build my own: Only thing difficult is to find good stainless wiremesh, and then to glue or weld it in a visually pleasing way...
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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 02:41 AM
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If I might make a suggestion. Try rubbing vaseline or silicon grease around the head seal and reassemble. Make sure its primed and burped well. If that helps I would order a spare seal or two.
I am sorry for reopening this thread but since I have been experiencing the same issues in my sunsun 303a could someone pls explain what the head portion of the canister filter is? I have tried almost everything else. Cleaned the impeller, the channel between impeller and outlet and every other crap. Air is not getting trapped either.. it's a new one too. Maybe its product itself that's bad. Anyway hope someone enlightens me.. Thanks.

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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 01:51 PM
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I'm experiencing similar problems with my SunSun 603B, I am opening it up this evening and seeing if my "mods" are the reason. I have a reducer on my output line to facilitate my Lily Pipe, but I am going to check the basket direction or media setup (I may have caused my own problem, with having the media bag on the bottom and sponges on top)...

Gary
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 03:51 PM
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I have three sunsun's working great for over two years but once when I cleaned the impeller assembly I did not seat it fully.It has a very small tab that needs to be fitted and tightened.After redoing that the problem was solved...
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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 03:55 PM
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Ha! I'm just across the river.

This is a brand new filter, it was stock with poor flow. I did giggle it and managed to get some flow out of it, but not enough to be impressed. I will attempt readjusting my media this evening along with checking the impeller assembly.

Gary
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 05:33 PM
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Some basics seem to be missing in the discussion and those little things can really hurt. One is when we add almost anything in line, we often reduce the flow. Look at the fitting you add inline and it is often added INSIDE the tubing. Take a 5/8 tube and add a 5/8 fitting and you DO not Have a 5/8 opening as the material of the fitting reduces the opening a lot. Add a media bag to hole the loose media and you have almost certainly added a flow restriction due to the bag material.
When I get new equipment, I fight the urge to "improve" it with any mods until I have tried it and found what the design offers. Only then will I try any of my homemade solutions one at a times to see what I may have screwed UP!
I don't see it mentioned but one easy way to shut down flow that is hard to spot is letting apiece of the loose media get into the flow at some point. Whether it is Sunsun, Eheim or any brand, there are places where we can let a hard media item like one of the barrels slip into the tubing and since it moves around, we may not spot it. Turning the filter block the wrong way is an easy one to do!
Just way too easy for us to fall into the trap of thinking the filter is bad when we are the main failure!

For the question of what is the "HEAD"? The top portion of the filter which sets down on the canister is all called the head. Often has a large rubber type O-ring to seal it to the canister body.
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 05:48 PM
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@PlantedRich, I understand that the reducer will definitely slow down performance on the output. I have extra hose here, I might readapt, install the stock spraybar for now and reorder a proper size lily pipe that will actually fit the hose. This i believe is one of the major factors in the reduced output.

Also, I moved around the canister filter so that the hoses were not crossing each and boom, much more flow, not a torrent but I can definitely see movement in the tank now. My output hose is longer than than it needs to be, I can trim some down and see if that helps as well.

"HEAD" is "HEAD PRESSURE" which is pressure required to push water upwards from point A to point B.

Gary
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 06:47 PM
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I am sorry for reopening this thread... could someone pls explain what the head portion of the canister filter is?
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I think this is the question PlantedRich was answering about what the head portion of the canister filter is.

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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 07:28 PM
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..."HEAD" is "HEAD PRESSURE" which is pressure required to push water upwards from point A to point B.
Technically that is Static head which is Zero in a closed loop system. Only a problem with sump pumps or open designs

Dynamic head would be friction/resistance from bent or crimped hoses, clogged media, ect. which was more likely the case with tangled hoses than length of hose. But if there's too much hose that's more opportunity for bends/ restrictions and should be shortened.

In my experience reducing intake diameter reduces flow, but reducing output diameter increases the force coming out. Like partially covering a garden hose with your thumb to spray a long distance. Same GPH, just more force

92% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 07:37 PM
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I definitely have too much length if it can form a nice curve, I think shortening things up will help further things along.

Either way, I plan to reorganize the media as well, I have the media bag at the bottom and sponges at the top. Going to put the sponges at the bottom and media bag on top and no top piece necessary and see if that helps as well.

Gary
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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 02:34 PM
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In my experience reducing intake diameter reduces flow, but reducing output diameter increases the force coming out. Like partially covering a garden hose with your thumb to spray a long distance. Same GPH, just more force
I fully agree with this idea but in the practical I agree only to a limited sense. We do see water flow in canisters as somewhat like a hose but when we get into actually putting a finger or any restriction on the filter tubing we will find it works a bit different due to the difference in pressure. A hose is likely to have 2-60 PSI and will push it's way through a restriction but if we put a finger over the end of a filter tube running about less than 10 PSI, it just stops flow!
The result is that a gob of filter floss in a hose will just blow on through but in a filter tubing, flow stops? I might look at the filter bag as a suspect and try how it works without the bab before I would do much to rearrange tubing. My point being that the bag is more suspect and also easier to test than cutting tubing.
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 07:11 PM
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I didn't get to working on the hosing for the filter but did manage to shift a few things and it is producing more flow, but not enough. I also have considered that my thinking is based on extreme water current in a tank. I'll take a small video with my phone to demonstrate the flow.

I might just be me and the Lily Pipe. Going to gander at other peoples tanks as well to see what type of flow they have with these type of pipes in their tanks.

Gary
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