*Please jump to post 85 for commencement of testing*
After about two days of intermittent research I found a place that is shipping 15 pound sacks of what Seachem calls Matrix in the same piece size for about 30 bucks. I won't mention what this material is as we all know already lol.
Equivalent amount of Matrix would run over 200.00
I like and use many Seachem products but in this case someone over there must have been reading P.T. Barnum.
"There's a sucker born every minute".
Doing scratch bids for ponds online I also found a site that was shutting down selling eheim classic cans new for $45. Back then I didn't have any tanks, so I watched it go by.
About the matrix
The similar product they sell on ebay is about the same price and comes in the bags so it is easy to change out. I personally do not like the drawstring media bags.
After about two days of intermittent research I found a place that is shipping 15 pound sacks of what Seachem calls Matrix in the same piece size for about 30 bucks. I won't mention what this material is as we all know already lol.
Equivalent amount of Matrix would run over 200.00
I like and use many Seachem products but in this case someone over there must have been reading P.T. Barnum.
"There's a sucker born every minute".
I was going to buy a pale of matrix for $60 to filter a 400G+ tank. You'd almost never need $200 worth of Matrix. That would have the bio capacity for well over 1000G US, possibly closer to 1500-2000G.
For those who don't know Matrix is nothing more than white pumice stone that has been "acid washed" which is rather a dubious thing given it has never been proven scientifically that that process is of any real benefit other than the benefit of color uniformity and the profit swelling it provides Seachem's bottom line.
Also given this is simply stone any of their precious dosing specs are rather immaterial.
More is better because why not.
Also again why pay what 3x more for the same thing?
Yes another forum actually paid a lab to determine what Matrix was and tada! Pumice.
So save your damn money. Or pay for their pretty bucket and label. And the fact that they washed and effectively bleached it. Yeah I'll take the 15 pound sack please lol http://www.generalpumiceproducts.com/order-here/
Pumice is roughly a pound and a half per liter. So 15lbs would be 10 liters of pumice. Seachem matrix is 4L for $30 and this stuff is 10L for $25. You can guestimate it at 2.5x the value. Not quite 8x the price. I'd even give you 3x the value.
A good resource for bulk though. I'll buy a 15lb bag for my next tank for sure. It will WAY over filter my tank though, in terms of potential bio capacity.
The largest available on this site is 3/8" from what I saw, which is matrix sized.
You can find it at local home improvement stores though (IE Lowes/Home Depot). It comes in the same size as lava rock and is essentially a more porous rock of the same nature. At least, that's what my 5 minutes on Google told me, so it has to be true. :grin2:
Also, no worries on the math. I was just curious about the numbers. I really worry about posting any sort of exaggeration on the internet because it becomes 'the truth' very quickly.
You must order a 15 pound sack shipping is included @ I believe 28 bucks give or take some pennies.
It would really be an ever better deal if people local to each other split the sack and cost
I'm sure a 15 pound sack is more than enough for all 6 of my canister filters.
You can use it in the substrate too. I used some salt and pepper rock in my aquarium before and I really liked how it looked. Add some of this in there and it wouldn't be too bad. It is just a rock after all!
Definitely a good deal. I wouldn't mind using this on my pond build either. It might give the sand and gravel filter a run for it's money. I'd have to sit down with the old pen and paper to crunch those numbers though.
Anyone want to do a side by side comparison of it as filter media? I'd like to see how it compares to Matrix. I'll pay for a small portion of it to be shipped and do side by side ammonia testing to see if it holds the same amount of bacteria as matrix. I could cycle them both in my tank and see how much ammonia can be neutralized in 24 hours with the same quantity of each.
Yes, I would very much be interested in seeing controlled tests conducted to see if plain ole' Pumice stone really does perform as well as Matrix.
For years I've heard they are the same, but never see anyone do any tests to prove so (pretty simple test really, though I'm too lazy to do it myself ).
In general SO MANY things in the aquarium trade have a generic alternative. But as soon as an aquarium company slaps a label on it the price more than doubles!
I just bought 25lbs of Diatomaceous Earth for about $25. If I had bought Vortex brand it would have been $135.
People just want to believe I guess.
The material safety data sheet otherwise known as the MSDS.
This is for Pond Matrix which is just plus sized Matrix.
You can extrapolate from this information to find it is indeed plain old pumice.
There is no magical additives no miracle treatments that make it different.
It is stone. Period. No added chemicals.
Nothing.
Key statement. 100% natural stone.
I suppose you can extrapolate and start assuming anything. YMMV is a staple.
If it works, it works. But there have been many cases of people using less than ideal bio medias without issue. I.E lava rock, scrubbies, shavings, etc. I find it tough to draw absolutes based on spec sheets that are 95% blank.
I have made no assumptions. I have backed every statement with fact and source/cite or photographic evidence.
The reason the MSDS is 95% blank is because it is:
Composed of 100% ROCK no additives no magical elixirs nothing but natural rock.
There ARE no other components to report.
But hey, whatever makes everyone happy.
So I am willing to step up to prove my point and put my money where my mouth is.
Someone else needs to do it for us though.
So no Matrix fanboys (Freemananana) and no DIY Generic fanboys (Lonestarbandit) needs to be a impartial disinterested 3rd party lol.
I nominate Immortal1 not only does he take great photos but he's very analytical and methodical and does great write-ups.
So who will donate some Matrix and ship it to him.
I will donate him some of my DIY Pumice and ship it to him so we can put paid to the many forum arguments about the same thing?
Planted Tank will have the definitive answer.
I already view it as the definitive forum
Lets get er' done as they say!
This is assuming he would do the testing willingly lol.
So I am willing to step up to prove my point and put my money where my mouth is.
Someone else needs to do it for us though.
So no Matrix fanboys (Freemananana) ....
I'm actually not a Matrix fanboy. I was actually willing to do the testing too! I think I suggested it first. I just didn't want to buy 15 lbs of pumice right now. Furthermore, I said I was going to buy pumice for my next tank build regardless! haha.
I'm in for results though. I may have missed the testing procedure, but I'll be sure to sub to this thread or the testing thread.
LOL, thanks for the recommendation LoneStarBandit. Sure, I would be interested in having some fun. Pretty sure I still have plenty of cheap ammonia left over. What I will have to do is find another 10g tank to go with the spare tank I currently have. I have my spare Marineland C360 and soon should have my AquaTop CF500 back (on loan to a friend). In all fairness to the test, I should see if I can get both filters to move approximately the same amount of water per hour. Given that I would be starting with clean water, I really should not "need" any mechanical filtration in either filter - just the biological material.
For what it's worth, I know plenty of people that use generic pot scrubbies for bio media in there filters. Was joking on the local forum you could probably get by with a bunch of plastic hot wheels cars for bio media - as long as you have enough surface area for the bacteria to grow on.
Being a 1st time Eheim owner, I do see an advantage to their Substrat Pro bio media (small sintered glass balls). Lot of surface area packed into the smallest space possible without restricting water flow.
Previously / currently I am using Fluval Biomax and have had good results with it.
Really I dont even know if Matrix is needed for this test. Here is my thinking. Seachem advertises how much matrix is needed for 100g. Divide that by ten and you have that amount for a 10g. If the pumice works the same amount should remove 5ppm ammonia in no time. Once the nitrification process is complete with no plants to consume nitrates the nitrates should rise. If the pumice is working as seachem advertises Matrix there should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and nitrates should show a decrease over time.
Addendum: I would add for those on a budget if this works 90% as well as Matrix it is a very viable option.
Oh no. Because I want the naysayers to have no room for argument lol. Need to test both. Depending what my finances look like when the 15 pound sack arrives I may just PayPal him enough to buy a comparative small amount of Matrix just to put this magical Matrix nonsense to bed. It is possible the acid wash etches the surface a bit more under say a microscope but I would doubt it changes the bacteria colonization on a level that would prove superior to this grade of pumice. It is probably just a marketing gimmick so they can say it IS different somehow.
Product differentiation. (Marketing 101 lol)
(I myself agree with you)
Decided to bankroll this test myself for the benefit of the forum so as of today ordered 500ml of Matrix.
Once it and my Pumice arrive I will be mailing some of both to Immortal1 for him to independently test and use his lovely high res camera on and experiment with and place his findings here. Then we as a forum shall have a definitive answer on the matter and I shall (very likely) be vindicated and my Hypothesis proved correct
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