Can you use flexible hosing to connect CO2 tank to regulator? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-05-2016, 02:55 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
lksdrinker's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: NY; LETS GO METS
Posts: 1,916
I used stainless steel braided lines like what would be used in a car's fuel system to go from my regulator to my manifold. Dont have a great photo showing it well, but its visible coming off the manifold at the bottom of the photo below. I'm sure something like this could be used to go from a tank to an externally mounted regulator as well if you can source the correct fittings. A good auto parts place (likely an old mom n pop and not one of the chains; or better yet a race shop if you've got any nearby) should be able to help fab something up if they dont have it available off the shelf.

Rich's Fishes
Curator of an ever growing fishroom that currently houses 30 different tanks. Most full of at least water....some even have fish!
lksdrinker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-05-2016, 05:28 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
Hoses are much harder to make so they don't leak at all with high pressure gas in them then they are for liquids. It takes a very tiny leak to dissipate all of the CO2 in the bottle over a few days. For that reason alone I would never try to connect the regulator to the bottle with a hose of any kind.

Years ago I worked a lot with 2000 psi air and regulators. We always, and I mean always, used stainless steel tubing to connect remotely mounted regulators to the air bottles, just for safety reasons. High pressure gas is very dangerous compared to high pressure liquids. This is the primary reason for not using any flexible hose or piping with high pressure CO2.
cjp999, cjp999, DaveK and 1 others like this.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 03:03 AM
Planted Member
 
dipan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 200
Apologies for the thread resurrection, but this is exactly what I was considering doing, remote mounting regulator and distribution manifold for 3 aquariums with 3 needle valves and solenoids, or just mounting the distribution manifold (low pressure hose connection) and leaving the regulator on the tank. Bettatail on this forum brought up this possibility for a new regulator build I asked for.

Anyone have any pictures of a remote setup, reg+manifold or just manifold? For some reason I am having a hard time picturing it, but it would be nice to have all the delicate bits like the metering valves and solenoids, fixed in the stand and not subject to injury during tank changes. It might also allow for use of a larger tank as there might not be as much clearance needed for bubble counters and tubes going straight up.

Plastic, yuck!
dipan is offline  
 
post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 03:21 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 12,178
I no longer have pictures of my setups for using the reg on the tank and the rest remote but it is actually pretty simple if we get past the idea that a manifold is something complex. We call it a manifold but it is more a set of tee, y's, etc that let us split the flow.
So it gets down to add the reg on the tank, fittings and line of choice to the first place you want CO2, add a tee there and a needle valve at the end of that line and continue on to the next tank, adding tee and needle valve at each point of use until you get to the last stop. Being in your area, you likely know irrigation, so think of the irrigation system as one giant manifold!
One point to consider is the way pressure will work in the system. As we open one needle valve, more gas pressure goes out there and that means less flow at the other tanks. Your house plumbing is a large manifold situation and you know what happens when somebody flushes the stool while you shower?
So it can make it a little more tricky to get each tank set and keep it set as we change other tanks flow.
PlantedRich is online now  
post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 05:00 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 11,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipan View Post
Apologies for the thread resurrection, but this is exactly what I was considering doing, remote mounting regulator
WORD of caution.. again.. Hardware store brass fittings, braided water hoses are NOT approved for 600-1000psi pressure..
You can easily "remote" your reg but it is not as easy nor cheap to do as one thinks ..


https://www.grainger.com/category/pl...&filters=attrs
https://www.interpumpfluidsolutions....E-Hoses-EN.pdf
https://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com...material-world


Just pick the right fittings for the pressure.don't guess..


Anything past the regulator is a piece of cake pressure wise..
https://www.kegworks.com/2-to-9-way-...BwE#item-16374


Of course you have choices.. 1 solenoid before the "manifold" or separate solenoids for each outlet.
You would need a metering valve for each though in all likelihood. If only to balance the outputs.
Yea gets complicated a bit.
Pic of 4 outlets, 4 valves, one solenoid..
You can do the same thing w/ plain pipe pieces..

https://greenleafaquariums.com/produ...e-modular.html


$15 and you have 5 1/4npt outlets. May need to modify the inlet (well remove the 3/8" part..)
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...iABEgIFRvD_BwE

Again all is put past the reg outlet..low pressure side

Suspended for 30 days for being awful to other forum members
jeffkrol is online now  
post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 05:26 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (89/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Posts: 2,790
here is the picture of the possible setup from the web, but I do have several of such regulators with the support station manifold, actually my personal Co2 work station is such setup with two protocol station manifolds.
for such setup with protocol station(actually a supported manifold), it can be mounted on wall, in the cabinet or fish tank stand, connect to co2 tank with high pressure rating stainless steel hose(normally 3500 - 5000 psi pressure rating).
the multi output post body can be connected to the regulator, one of the reasons such "off the co2 cylinder" setup, the regulator and its bulky post body(multiple output) can be placed to some place more secure, and you can figure out rest of the good reasons depends on your need.

the regulator can be connect to this protocol station directly(undetachable), or through a CGA320 adapter(regulator detachable)



do not have a complete picture of my co2 work station atm, but from these two pictures you can see my personal co2 work station where the swagelok and concoa regulators connect to:



I can work on three co2 systems at the same time.



as Jeff mentioned, the protocol station is not cheap, but all the parts in our high end co2 system are not cheap neither, we can have them build because these parts are cheap enough if we know what and where to find the parts, and last, know how to make them work..


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Canon Pimp Club #17

Last edited by Bettatail; 06-20-2020 at 05:20 PM. Reason: add
Bettatail is offline  
post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 06:08 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (89/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Posts: 2,790
and after 4 years, to answer the original question of this thread, my answer is "yes", but only use the high pressure rating hose and the supporting station for such regulator-off-the cylinder-mounting purpose.

for off-cylinder mounting, there is pressure regulator panel we can use as well....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Canon Pimp Club #17
Bettatail is offline  
post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 01:10 PM
Planted Member
 
dipan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
I no longer have pictures of my setups for using the reg on the tank and the rest remote but it is actually pretty simple if we get past the idea that a manifold is something complex. We call it a manifold but it is more a set of tee, y's, etc that let us split the flow.
So it gets down to add the reg on the tank, fittings and line of choice to the first place you want CO2, add a tee there and a needle valve at the end of that line and continue on to the next tank, adding tee and needle valve at each point of use until you get to the last stop. Being in your area, you likely know irrigation, so think of the irrigation system as one giant manifold!
One point to consider is the way pressure will work in the system. As we open one needle valve, more gas pressure goes out there and that means less flow at the other tanks. Your house plumbing is a large manifold situation and you know what happens when somebody flushes the stool while you shower?
So it can make it a little more tricky to get each tank set and keep it set as we change other tanks flow.
That’s a great point. Would using a higher pressure than typical, like 50-60 PSI, mitigate these intrasystem variations? The only other option for extreme precision would be one reg per system which would end up being a huge setup.

Plastic, yuck!
dipan is offline  
post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 02:41 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 12,178
In some ways the higher pressure may help but in other ways it also has a downside. What I first look at is what pressure is going to work best for the type diffusion I will be using and that does require all diffusers on the same reg to be moderately the same pressure, for instance all reactors at low pressure or all ceramic, etc. at high pressure.
I do not like the ceramic, etc for the amount of fuss they require to keep them clean and working at a stable rate. I can also mass produce Grigg's style reactors in one size which serve all the different size tanks I have tried. Buying PVC pipe in ten foot and small parts in bags of ten is much more cost effective than bought separately. I can easily cut the cost from $20 to $10 when mass produced and it is always handy to have a few to pull out for trading "value added" deals!
So I favor low pressure but it also avoids some issues like buying higher cost /higher pressure fittings and tubing. I run at ten PSI which lets me use simple airline tubing on 10-32 barb fittings than come in less than a dollar each and it lets me be much more versatile in location and placement as it also lets me move away from mounting the bubble counter or flowmeters on the reg where they break so easy.
So factor, not so easy to see, is the way higher pressure tends to make tubing expand (balloon?) as the pressure is on/off. This ballooning makes the settings tend to creep more but also tends to make any movement in the tubing try to creep out of fittings, even when compression fittings are used and barb fittings are totally out for higher pressure as they blow off too easy.
So it gets down to what one wants to get done. I want cheap,easy and workable over the long term, so I go with plastic from the output of the reg and solenoid, use the much cheaper and simple to mount Fluval bubble counter or flowmeters and low pressure.
Others who want all metal may go for stainless and more appearance concerns. I have Swaglok dealers here in the local area but I find I can get the parts and build a new system in less time than it takes to ship in parts for a different setup.
It gets down to personal preference on what we each find works best for what we do.
PlantedRich is online now  
post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-20-2020, 05:34 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (89/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Posts: 2,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipan View Post
That’s a great point. Would using a higher pressure than typical, like 50-60 PSI, mitigate these intrasystem variations? The only other option for extreme precision would be one reg per system which would end up being a huge setup.
My plan is to build a multiple outputs co2 system, and this system can be connected to the co2 cylinder or a protocol station.

and I think plantedrich's suggestion is inline multiple outputs setup, this can be done with off regulator post body(solenoid and flow control valve) for each individual planted tank, connect through high pressure rating co2 hose and hose manifolds. The output pressure of the regulator will stay the same because that is what it suppose to do, unless the total co2 flow rate is more than its designed max output volume.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Canon Pimp Club #17
Bettatail is offline  
post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-22-2020, 03:08 AM
Planted Member
 
dipan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
My plan is to build a multiple outputs co2 system, and this system can be connected to the co2 cylinder or a protocol station.

and I think plantedrich's suggestion is inline multiple outputs setup, this can be done with off regulator post body(solenoid and flow control valve) for each individual planted tank, connect through high pressure rating co2 hose and hose manifolds. The output pressure of the regulator will stay the same because that is what it suppose to do, unless the total co2 flow rate is more than its designed max output volume.
Thanks, I look forward to what you come up with. I should have the space to mount the protocol station in my utility room where I am setting up a grow out tank. Future display will be plumbed to this setup but will be through a long length of low pressure CO2 hose that goes into the attic for a short length then back down under a stairwell where a primary tank will be located. The third output will probably be a short run of higher volume CO2 to the display to get decent CO2 levels quickly. One of the other outputs will feed the display a lower flow rate.

Had to look up “protocol station” as you use it as a standard term. Here is a useful description for anyone interested by Concoa:

http://www.concoa.com/docs/ADI3204B.pdf

Plastic, yuck!
dipan is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome