Water change? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: las vegas
Posts: 1,195
Water change?

At the moment I have RCS and plants, Co2, EI and 50% weekly water change. Is that good for RCS or should I break down the water change twice a week? thanks
HUNTER is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 06:54 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
brandon429's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Playas, NM
Posts: 581
it doesnt matter. mine gets 100% changed bi weekly same setup so do either one that keeps a target param in check that you are goaling for.

the only way any tank can know if water changes are too much or too little is pick a param you are trying to manage and see if they is being supported by the work you do.

small old reef tank:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


still running in 2018

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
brandon429 is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 09:38 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (26/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 732
RCS will so fine with either schedule. Water change schedules don't typically become more complicated until you're doing high end shrimp.
Puddles is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: las vegas
Posts: 1,195
Sounds good, I think I'm good with just RCS for now.
HUNTER is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 10:20 PM
Banned
 
PTrader: (31/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUNTER View Post
At the moment I have RCS and plants, Co2, EI and 50% weekly water change. Is that good for RCS or should I break down the water change twice a week? thanks
@ CO2 with shrimp. but i guess its only RCS so whatever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon429 View Post
it doesnt matter. mine gets 100% changed bi weekly same setup so do either one that keeps a target param in check that you are goaling for.

the only way any tank can know if water changes are too much or too little is pick a param you are trying to manage and see if they is being supported by the work you do.

100% water changes? you must get mini cycles all the time.
bostoneric is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 11:03 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Ebichua's Avatar
 
PTrader: (83/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostoneric View Post
@ CO2 with shrimp. but i guess its only RCS so whatever....




100% water changes? you must get mini cycles all the time.

First off, do you have ANY experience with co2 usage in shrimp tanks or are you just reading other people's bad experiences and using it as your own? I've kept co2 injected tanks with most of my shrimp tanks and they do perfectly fine. I know other people who inject co2 into their tanks and they're fine.

Also, why would he experience mini cycles? Beneficial bacteria live on surfaces, not in the water. Doing a very large water change won't really do anything to the BB. I doubt it's 100%, since you can't possibly drain out ALL the water, but lets just say the poster meant as close to 100% as possible, it still wouldn't do anything to the BB.


OP:
You can do weekly water changes as you please. Just be responsible about possible temp shock and make sure parameters align themselves properly. There's no reason for you to avoid WCs in fear that the shrimp will wither away and die. The only time that will happen is if the water you put in is too different and kills them. Of course, due to the frequency of the WCs, room for error increases as well. So bi-weekly, weekly or once a month, it doesn't really matter. Just make sure you're matching the new water that's going into the tank with the existing water inside it.
Ebichua is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 11:07 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
brandon429's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Playas, NM
Posts: 581
info on mini cycles here
ebi is right
since my fish are only guppies i do drain it all and let them flop lol but yes mostly when others do it the change is 80%
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=509009

small old reef tank:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


still running in 2018

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
brandon429 is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: las vegas
Posts: 1,195
I red that Co2 is not ideal for shrimp, I lessened the bps. It doesn't matter what type of shrimp they are, will do what I can to give them optimum care. When I do water change I do the same way each time, especially the temp.
HUNTER is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 02:37 AM
Banned
 
PTrader: (31/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebichua View Post
First off, do you have ANY experience with co2 usage in shrimp tanks or are you just reading other people's bad experiences and using it as your own? I've kept co2 injected tanks with most of my shrimp tanks and they do perfectly fine. I know other people who inject co2 into their tanks and they're fine.

Also, why would he experience mini cycles? Beneficial bacteria live on surfaces, not in the water. Doing a very large water change won't really do anything to the BB. I doubt it's 100%, since you can't possibly drain out ALL the water, but lets just say the poster meant as close to 100% as possible, it still wouldn't do anything to the BB.
1. yes i very much do. before I started my multiple shrimp racks I had multiple CO2 tanks that contained shrimp. when I stopped using CO2 my shrimp populations blew up. so yes I do have experience. I've also visited more than a few shrimp farms/breeders and have never seen any using any CO2. infact just the opposite in most cases. most try to push as much O2 as possible into the water to aid in the survival of shrimplets. so i'd say i have more than a little experience.
I'm not saying you cant have shrimp and C02, but your shrimp population will suffer because of the CO2. so as far as I'm concerned you make a choice, either CO2 with nice plants or O2 and nice shrimp.

2. changing 100% of you water will absolutely affect the micro organisms in your water in a negative way. its to much of a change in the parameters when changing 100% of your water. even if you match the water exactly you are still taking things out that you are not adding back in.

thank you come again.
bostoneric is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 02:45 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
brandon429's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Playas, NM
Posts: 581
Please give details on point number two, elaborate. What is taken out that isn't put back, the significance of that...good food for thought coming up


Your position is a common mode of thought, reefkeepers feel even stronger about it. I've been told my videos of full water changes in an 8 year old sps reef were faked which I took as a great complement. Nobody says you have to change all the water, but some do, have vids of it and are curious to know why it should kill a tank. I think your point might be missing factors that aren't replaced that would cause animal stress.

My opinion was wc are super mega flexible and should be conducted in consistent ways so you can always have one as a quick fixer for occasional probs or for a quick refresher of the system. I feed heavier just before a big water change, good eating at that time. Its nice to know how much you can get away with vs living in uncertainty about them imo

small old reef tank:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


still running in 2018

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by brandon429; 12-24-2013 at 03:00 AM. Reason: Spelling
brandon429 is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 03:02 AM
Banned
 
PTrader: (31/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,377
The only time I would ever change such a huge amount of water is during the initial setup of a tank to control the cycle using Aqua Soil.

I would think in the SW world 100% water changes would be even more drastic to the the creatures/animals in the tank because there are so many more living things in the water column. Copepods, etc

but if it worked for you then why change it. just like Ebichua's opinion on CO2 and shrimp tanks. like i said, i've done it, the shrimp dont exactly all die. but your shrimp numbers suffer because of it. you get a VERY LOW survival rate of shrimplets.
bostoneric is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 03:32 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
brandon429's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Playas, NM
Posts: 581
Curious about the co2

Proper co2 use during the day makes the o2 saturation climb and it can be turned off at night, I wonder why the co2 is harmful when ran in tanks with correct hardness values

Perhaps running it before peak photosynthesis hours allows too much carbonic acid buildup

Not really debating that point as I haven't raised delicate species shrimplets its more of a thought review. If it is impactful on a repeated basis among keepers its neat to consider what aspect of co2 makes it poor for them.

small old reef tank:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


still running in 2018

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
brandon429 is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 07:33 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Ebichua's Avatar
 
PTrader: (83/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,720
I raised CRS with co2 and did not experience a high mortality rate of shrimplets. It's all about how you balance it. If you inject enough for your plants to properly absorb most, if not all, the co2 injected, then you should be fine. If you overdo it, then I wouldn't be surprised if you experience bad side-effects from co2 injection, such as higher mortality rate. Of course, if you eliminate co2 all in all, you would eliminate the risk of overdosing co2 (even if it's just a little bit OD), so you would obviously see a decline in mortality rate. But if you were to inject a low volume, enough for plants to absorb it, you DO end up with a win-win situation where both plants and shrimp are happy, without any side-effects.

The reason why some people don't bother with co2 is probably because they don't want to deal with the chance of ODing. Fine tuning is required for success, however, co2 injection doesn't always mean lower shrimplet count. It just means you added an extra variable into the shrimp-raising equation that you need to account for, thus, room for error does increase. Simple as that.

Here's a video I made a year ago with my CRS tank with injected co2. Full of babies in it! That tank has been torn down earlier this year, because I moved. However, I hope this is evidence that you CAN have great success, despite using co2.

Ultimately, it is up to the keeper to decide if they want to go through the trouble of finding that "balance" with co2 in their tank. If you are able to tune it properly, you will be rewarded with both beautiful plant growth and lots of babies. If you screw up, you get great plant growth but end up disrupting shrimp population growth. Or you can just ditch the co2 and focus on shrimp and get great shrimp growth and plants are just meh.
Ebichua is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 10:08 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
garfieldnfish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 1,763
I do not use CO2, but my shrimp tanks are heavily planted and the plants do fine without the CO2. I feed the shrimp lightly but they eat any decaying plant matter and Indian almond leaves. I only do bi weekly water changes of 10% and sometimes I wonder if that is even needed. The plants and the shrimp seem to have an almost perfect balance to keep both healthy without me interfering and the shrimp are all breeding. I keep RCS, CRS, OEBTs, tangerine tigers, blue bee shrimp and Amano shrimp. Self contained ecosystems and all I do is add a tiny amount of shrimp minerals whenever I change a small amount of water and let nature take its course.

20g L46/hastatus/pygmy corys, 10g OEBTs, 10g blue bees/blue velvet shrimp, 10g CRS, 25g L174s/BNs/L340s, 10g yellow/red tiger shrimp, 15g clown plecos/CPDs/habrosus corys, 15g cory fry, 29g Weitzmani/panda corys/BNs, 46g L134s/salt and pepper corys/BNs/rubberlip pleco, 55g SAE/L201s/L199s/BNs/kissing gourami, 75g L316s/BNs/L134s/CAE/silver dollar, 30g L340s/L211s/CPDs,10g tangerine tiger/snowball shrimp, 20g L134/habrosus corys, 10g CPD fry
garfieldnfish is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: las vegas
Posts: 1,195
I've kept reef tanks before and it's not as forgiving in regards to big water change especially close to 100% unless theres some tragic happens or something toxic dump into the tank, fish might be okay, but corals will definitey suffer. Unlike planted tanks, plants love big water changes. Anyway, with this Co2 and shrimp info, since I only have juvie RCS and plants, I decided to lower my Co2 from 3bps to 1bps, raised my lights, cut down on my ferts and lower my temp to accomodate my babies. The added benefit on these adjustment is that I will not trim often and not so much of unwanted algae. Well, we'll see.
HUNTER is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome