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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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Parameter Questions

My 20L has been cycled for about a month and a half now with just 3 ottos living in it and feasting on the massive amount of diatoms. I'm now looking into ordering some shrimp for the tank. I'm stuck between OEBT and BTOE which from what I understand the BTOE are just a darker color variant of the OEBT?

So first, my parameters:
ph - 7.0-7.2
kh - 3-4
gh - 3

Sorry for the variance, I'm a little color blind so I actually struggle with these 3 tests more than any others. I don't know my TDS yet. My old meter is busted and I have a new one in the mail, set to be here Saturday.

Now the questions:

I've seen some variance on what parameters these shrimp should be kept in anything from ph of 6.5-7.8, kh 1-8 and gh 2-10. Could anyone narrow this down some for me? I know these shrimp can be sensitive so I would really like to do what I can to get them in ideal parameters.

My plan is to do top offs with Distilled water from the grocery store. Water changes from the tap. I was also thinking that I could raise my gh with that gh+ product if necessary. This only effects gh not kh right?

In a month or two I'm planning on purchasing a RO/DI unit. How could I convert the water in the tank at that point over to remineralized RO without stressing the shrimp? Would I have to remove them and reacclimate them with a drip or could I slowly convert the water parameters over with water changes or something? I haven't really thought about the technicalities of this much since its down the line a little.

Greg

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 05:34 PM
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Your parameters are pretty close to optimal (minus not knowing the TDS)
Rather than distilled water, does your grocery store have those RO dispensing machines out front? You are better off buying RO from those machines then distilled till you get your RO unit.

have you tested your tap water? tap water is hard to test sometimes because it varies so much from day to day and based on the temp also.

I'd try to stear clear of anything other than RO that you remineralize to your requirements.
starting with RO is a lot easier to manage.

For me, the only time I remineralize the water is during initial setup or during LARGE water changes. For just top offs or small changes to manage parameters I only use RO water.

But always do your changes/topoffs slowly. drip would be optimal just like when you acclimatize any new shrimp to you water.

Black Tiger
PH: 7.2 – 7.4
KH: 4 – 8
GH: 6 – 10
TDS: 100 – 180
Water temp: 18 – 23C
Blue Tiger
PH: 7.2 - 7.4
KH: 4 - 8
GH: 6 - 10
TDS: 100 - 180
Water temp: 18 - 23C
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 05:36 PM
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BTOE are black tiger orange eyes. OEBT are Orange eyed blue tigers. BTOE is not just a darker variant...it's black. BTOE breed true typically. OEBT do not.

I'd get that GH up to at least 5. Some GH products can mess with KH, just read the directions on them. BTOE and OEBT typically like a little higher TDS so I use Fluval Shrimp Minerals on mine since it's a bit dirtier. But Salty Shrimp, Shirakura CA+ and more are out there that are a bit cleaner if you don't need the extra TDS.

You can convert them over to RO slowly a little at a time (even small water changes every day is fine). I'd do that as opposed to reacclimating them but that's just me and I typically have BAD luck with OEBT so you may want to ignore everything that comes out of my mouth Am fine with most anything else except those.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you both. I'll post more when I get the TDS meter on Saturday. I took my time establishing the tank and feel like I'm rushing a bit now but I should have the shrimp sometime next week. It seems with the weather getting colder a lot of people aren't shipping anymore or are stopping soon.

I ordered some of the Fluval Shrimp Minerals. If my TDS comes back high on Saturday I'll have to rush to get one of the "cleaner" products and I'll just hold onto the fluval stuff for when I switch to RO/DI. To be honest though I didn't find many retailers for the Salty Shrimp or Shirakura products when I searched.

@bostoneric, is there a problem with Distilled jugs from the store? I thought it was about the same thing? The only place I have ever seen those water dispensing things was up in Massachusetts. I just don't think its something CT does. If I need to I could possibly source some RO/DI from one of the LFS. It'd just be a lot more driving and more lugging haha.

Greg

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2013, 02:20 AM
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You won't get a ton of difference with Fluval vs the others, in TDS anyway. GH 5 equals 130-145 TDS with Fluval (that's starting with 0-5 TDS RO water) and Salty Shrimp GH + is GH 5 with a TDS of about 110-115. That's my experience with them, I'm sure batches may vary a bit. I have some Shirakura CA+ here but haven't used it yet so not sure.


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-23-2013, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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My TDS came back over 350 so I will be using RO water. For now I will waste money buying jugs of RO from Wally World until I get a RO/DI unit. Fluval shrimp minerals came today so I will start switching over the water tonight. Over some time once I get it I am going to switch to bee shrimp gh/kh+. I have been told that tigers can tolerate and it seems prefer some kh to none unlike crystals. The gh/kh+ will give me .5 kh to 1 gh.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
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I switched over to RO today. Using the Fluval shrimp minerals I had to dose around 7ml for every 4 gallons of 0 TDS RO to get my gh to 6. This put me right around 193 TDS. I feel like this is a little high though. And a little higher than ravensgate's numbers. Going off those I think I should be around 175 at the most?

Greg

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 02:59 PM
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I like to keep my TDS on all my tiger tanks at around 200
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelrod12 View Post
I switched over to RO today. Using the Fluval shrimp minerals I had to dose around 7ml for every 4 gallons of 0 TDS RO to get my gh to 6. This put me right around 193 TDS. I feel like this is a little high though. And a little higher than ravensgate's numbers. Going off those I think I should be around 175 at the most?

Make sure you shake the snot out of those minerals before you add them to the water. If you aren't doing that it will skew your results.


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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravensgate View Post
Make sure you shake the snot out of those minerals before you add them to the water. If you aren't doing that it will skew your results.
Yah I gave it a good shake. I tested 3 separate times while I was filling the tank. It took 193 TDS each time to get to 6 gh

Greg

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 04:37 PM
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YOu have a 'range' to hit. Like I can get a GH of 5 anywhere from say, 130-155. Was 192 the lowest TDS you could hit an be at GH 6? Because a GH of 6 may be in the range of 160-195 or something along those lines. Does that make sense? YOu may be at the 'high' end of GH 6, on the cusp of hitting GH 7. Or, it could just be a little variation in that batch. Are you mixing/shaking the RO water good to get a thorough mix of the minerals? May sound like a silly question, just making sure all the bases are covered


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Yup makes sense. I think the lowest from the 3 tests was 185 or so. I mixed the water pretty good after I added the minerals and let a powerhead run in the bucket for a few minutes before testing.

Greg

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 05:00 PM
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It may just be a little variation in the batches. A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion about Salty Shrimp and somebody said they were at 135 TDS for a GH of 5 when my experience was TDS 110 for a GH of 5. I think some of the products DO have a little bit of variation. I'm on my 5th bottle of Fluval I think since switching to RO on a couple of tanks and I have notes from when I started and the first bottle I had to be at 140 to hit a GH of 5. The second bottle I could hit GH 5 at 125 TDS. These days I just try to get between 130-140TDS and test my GH in the tanks about every 3 weeks to make sure everything is still on target. Remember, your TDS in the tank is going to wind up even higher (food, shrimp poop, plant debris/decay, etc all raise TDS). Luckily tigers tend to like a bit higher TDS so you should do fine. Or drop the GH down to 5. What Bostoneric posted is 'ideals' listed on a shrimp website. Keep in mind none of that is ever set in stone. And actually, most folks on here will tell you OEBT prefer much lower KH (0-2). I keep them in a tank of GH 5 and KH 1 and then I have another tank that is half tap/half RO that I don't even test but can tell you it's probably much higher on GH/KH values Also most keep in TDS 200-250 from what I've gathered on here. Your best bet is to locate where you will be getting the shrimp from and finding out the breeders parameters and try to match those. Don't go by a website or what we say, find out the water they came from and you will probably have better results

There are a few threads on here where folks post the parameters they keep theirs in that can give you an average if you want to try to narrow it down a bit more.


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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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The shrimp are coming from these parameters:
PH 7.0-7.4
GH 6-7
KH 1-2
TDS 225-275

Greg

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 06:04 PM
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Then I think you'll be sitting pretty spot on


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