Water change frequency - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
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Water change frequency

I have 10 blue dream neos in a 10 gallon tank. I have been changing 1 gallon of water a week with RO\DI remineralized to 175TDS

I have had this tank setup since July, and I'm a little worried that I haven't had any babies yet.

Should I continue to change 1 gallon weekly, or should I test TDS to decide? right now it's been about a week since I changed water and it's at 213 TDS.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 05:11 AM
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It can take a few months before they start breeding.

What's diet like? Temp? Parameters?
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 05:26 AM
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have any been berried, are any saddled, have they been molting plus the generic ph/gh/kh/nitrates/feeding/anything else in the tank questions
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 05:54 AM
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I do 50% water change every 2 weeks. This coincides roughly with their moulting cycle. I see a lot of molts after the water change.

In a shrimp only tank the TDS does not change much. Mine is always at 200 around for the tank that houses the neos.


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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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It’s only the shrimp in the tank, I’m feeding Bacter ae after water changes and mineral junkie once a week. I just started feeding blanched cucumbers once a week as well and ordered son kens fish veggie sticks.

I’m trying to keep the temp at 72.

I’ll do my parameter tests tomorrow and post here.

Thinking about it now, when I first set this tank up I was losing some water to evaporation and adding it back during my weekly water change instead of topping up with RO water, so I probably slowly raised the TDS over time. Should I keep changing with new water at a TDS of 175 or go to 200 to try to match the tank at 213?

Last edited by Darkblade48; 11-01-2020 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 11:47 AM
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Set it for 215 for this water change. And then gradually pull back to 200. Imo this is the ideal TDS for neos. Kh of 4 and Gh of 6-8.

Also during water changes I always use a slow drip for incoming water. Temperature is more important to be matched than the TDS.


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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 05:42 PM
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Does topping off with RO water create the possibility that the ratio of solids in the TDS may change over time (i.e. different ratios for gH, kH, and other particulates) and drift from the nominal mineralized profile? Even though it stays the same TDS.

I've thought about topping off like that but worried about this issue.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 09:50 PM
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There's certainly a change in ratios over time, but this would occur even if we could eliminate evaporation altogether. I only top off with (non-mineralized) RO/DI because in my view that's all that is leaving the aquarium water.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-01-2020, 07:09 PM
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Okay, so I would say it's fine keep using the lower TDS water for water changes, you could potentially even use lower TDS water if the GH is climbing like the TDS.


I would also recommend adding in a protein food once a week. A fish or bug based meal. This could be either shrimp food or fish food. It can be frozen food or flake or pellet food. You can see if you can add to your Ken's Fish order if it hasn't shipped out yet or pick up something from a local pet store.


That would be the main change I can recommend at this time... and to give it at least a few weeks of the new diet.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-02-2020, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostlydave View Post
trying to keep the temp at 72.
I've read that if you raise the temps up to 80 or so that it will simulate summer breeding time and that will inspire some breeding.

I keep my tank steady at 78, put 6 blue dreams in my 10g four weeks ago, had a berried female within days and the shrimplets all hatched a couple of days ago.
I don't monitor much of anything else. I just do a 20% or so water change every week with RO water adjusted to Gh of around 7-9 and over the course of the week ad fertilizer to the water column (flourish, flourish trace, potassium and phosphorus as directed by SeaChem.) although I've cut my water column fert regimen in half doses since the little critters were hatched for no real scientific reason other to keep things more stable as the little ones grow.

I have at least 20 little ones in my tank right now.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-02-2020, 10:36 PM
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These animals come from temperate China, and do better at 60 than 80. I cannot stress enough to keep them cool as long as we aren't talking Sulawesi shrimp. And 10% weekly is what I do on my own tanks. If I knew a better percentage, I'd being doing that.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-04-2020, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostlydave View Post
I have 10 blue dream neos in a 10 gallon tank. I have been changing 1 gallon of water a week with RO\DI remineralized to 175TDS

I have had this tank setup since July, and I'm a little worried that I haven't had any babies yet.

Should I continue to change 1 gallon weekly, or should I test TDS to decide? right now it's been about a week since I changed water and it's at 213 TDS.
Sounds like you are doing everything you need to do. My CRS seem to only breed in the Spring. I also have a 10 G (heavily planted + rocks and wood). Do you drip in the change water? Are you having deaths? Your TDS is fine. I think you just need to be patient. Im wondering if this is the norm for a Nano (10 G) tank. A much larger tank and set up would probably yield a larger result. Keep us posted and be patient. I started with a dozen and now have 60.....in about 3 years. Good luck. Think you are fine.

Bump: I forgot to suggest doing the water change every other week instead of weekly.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-05-2020, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
These animals come from temperate China, and do better at 60 than 80. I cannot stress enough to keep them cool as long as we aren't talking Sulawesi shrimp. And 10% weekly is what I do on my own tanks. If I knew a better percentage, I'd being doing that.
Your information seems to go against what most literature says. I've been using this guide for the care and breeding of my blue dreams and have had pretty good success.
https://aquariumbreeder.com/blue-vel...-and-breeding/
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-05-2020, 03:49 PM
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Blue dream are just another colour of neo, right? Not saying that water parameters aren't important, but neo's seem to be adaptable to most conditions and someone somewhere will be successfully keeping / breeding them in water that isn't within the normal recommendations. Most online literature can arguably be quite dated in terms of water parameters; breeding has come a long way in the past few years and my understanding is that today's shrimp are much less fussy than even a few generations back.

My current feeling and experience is that absolute water parameters aren't that important for neo's so long as they are within the right sort of range. I think (again from experience) that we can get far too caught up in chasing some arbitrary "optimum" parameters, and can actually be doing more harm than good by keep fiddling. I think other factors such as tank stability (fewer, smaller water changes), tank maturity (lots of biofilm), the right plants (I'm a big fan of moss for shrimp tanks) and diet have a much bigger impact upon shrimp health and willingness to breed than having a certain water parameter.

My red cherries just wouldn't breed - most people would say that's almost impossible given that my tank parameters were "perfect". I neglected the tank for a few weeks whilst setting up other tanks, TDS went up, KH went through the roof as soil's buffering suddenly ran out, glass got a bit green, moss became overgrown, salvinia covered surface, tank no longer looked pristine, and guess water happened!
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-05-2020, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
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Your information seems to go against what most literature says. I've been using this guide for the care and breeding of my blue dreams and have had pretty good success.
https://aquariumbreeder.com/blue-vel...-and-breeding/
I don't really consider care sheets literature, as anyone can write and post one online. I feel like someone wrote a care sheet on Neocaridina shrimp many years ago and everyone going forward just used the information off of that. Dennerle Breeders n' Keepers Wild Shrimp China edition was a turning point for me unplugging heaters. They collected them in the wild in many locations on trips at different times of year and recorded the water parameters. They were found in a variety of hardness and TDS/conductivity levels, but the one thing that stood out to me was that every collection point maxed out around 70 degrees. This is not say that populations aren't out there at warmer locations, but none were recorded. Neos overwinter in my outdoor pond that reaches near-freezing. They begin to perish at around 90 degrees. There are a lot of things I change my opinion on in this hobby, but too cool being better than too warm for Neo shrimp is not going to be one of them.



Cherry shrimp are crazy adaptable creatures. If things are stable they will thrive and breed way outside of care sheet recommendations. I keep them in Caridina tanks at 0 dKH and have kept them on crushed coral. What they do not suffer well is abrupt changes. This is why husbandry methods such as aging tanks and not overfeeding are so crucial. Your shrimp will do fine at 78. Being ectotherms it would be surmised that they will grow faster, breed more often and have a reduced lifespan than if kept at 70, which is a trade-off lots of people would make (and it isn't as if these differences are stark at change of 8 degrees).

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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