Bloody Mary shrimp, but Blue or Yellow variant names? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-16-2020, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Bloody Mary shrimp, but Blue or Yellow variant names?

I'm planning out tanks for when I move, and I want to get a few 2.5 gallon nano shrimp tanks set up, in Red, Blue, and Yellow. I know for each tank, I want shrimp with very intensely colored carapaces. I think for the red tank, I'm aiming for bloody mary, or high grade sakura shrimp (it's been a while)? But I'm not super well versed in blue and yellow grading schemes/names. What are the highest grades of blue and yellow Neocaridinas called? And where can I find them?

So many fish/plants/inverts to keep, not enough aquaria.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-16-2020, 08:17 AM
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Recently I got some super-yellow neo's here in Singapore which were called "Goldenbacks". They are really really solid yellow coloured with a metalic yellow racing stripe right down their backs which looks golden when the light catches, hence the name. Here I believe they call high grade goldenbacks "24k", as in 24 karat gold. Not sure how universal these names are outside of SG / Asia.

Not the best picture I'm afraid but....


(few other pic's in this gallery)


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-16-2020, 03:19 PM
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Recently I got some super-yellow neo's here in Singapore which were called "Goldenbacks". They are really really solid yellow coloured with a metalic yellow racing stripe right down their backs which looks golden when the light catches, hence the name. Here I believe they call high grade goldenbacks "24k", as in 24 karat gold. Not sure how universal these names are outside of SG / Asia.

Not the best picture I'm afraid but....


(few other pic's in this gallery)
As far as I know, this yellow is the highest grade and Bloody Mary is the highest grade Red. You can get either 1 on Aquabid, EBAY, or occasionally on here.

These are my Goldenbacks:

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-16-2020, 07:09 PM
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Bloody mary isn't a "grade" of cherry, but rather, a different color of cherry shrimp! Would definitely recommend bloody mary!

An equivalent in blue might be blue dreams? Or perhaps a blue diamond. Alternatively, look into blue tiger shrimp. There are some nice looking royal blue tigers.


An alternative to the yellow neocaridina would be yellow king kongs.


If you have the space, I would also recommend going with a 5 gallon tank at least. More stable parameters.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-16-2020, 07:29 PM
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Bloody mary isn't a "grade" of cherry, but rather, a different color of cherry shrimp! Would definitely recommend bloody mary!

An equivalent in blue might be blue dreams? Or perhaps a blue diamond. Alternatively, look into blue tiger shrimp. There are some nice looking royal blue tigers.


An alternative to the yellow neocaridina would be yellow king kongs.


If you have the space, I would also recommend going with a 5 gallon tank at least. More stable parameters.
I forget about yellow King Kongs. I may try those in near future.

I just got some incredible blue dream neo's from @Blue Ridge Reef.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-17-2020, 06:23 AM
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Bloody mary isn't a "grade" of cherry, but rather, a different color of cherry shrimp! Would definitely recommend bloody mary!
So many shrimp, not enough tanks!

From here:
Bloody Mary shrimp are a type of red Neocaridina, similar to Cherry shrimp. However, unlike Cherry’s which carry their red coloration in their shells, Bloody Mary’s have transparent shells with a deep red color in their tissue. Information on the origin of Bloody Mary shrimp is conflicting with some breeders claiming they are simply Cherry shrimp with red tissue, while other breeders claim true Bloody Mary’s are bred from dwarf Chocolate shrimp. Regardless, our conclusion from our own personal colonies as well as the breeders we work with, is that Bloody Mary’s are transparent shrimp with beautiful deep red tissue.

Not actually come across any bloody mary's yet here in SG, but they're now on my shopping list!

So what do you get if you cross a high-grade red cherry with a bloody mary? Red shell and red insides???

And I'm liking the idea of getting some blue tigers to go with the goldenbacks as per the @Discusluv video. My goldenback's are in with my red cherries at the moment as my LFS only had 6 left and they needed to come home before their own tank was ready. But since there's a least one that's berried, I'm assuming they're enjoying the company! Also going to be interested to see how the shrimplets come out with possibly a red daddy....

Seems water parameters requirements for the blue tigers and goldenbacks are the same, is that right?


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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-17-2020, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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If you have the space, I would also recommend going with a 5 gallon tank at least. More stable parameters.
It'll actually be a squeeze to get the 2.5s in tbh. I've been keeping tanks for...wow, it's really been 15+ years at this point. Anyways, I've been keeping shrimp for 10+ years, so I think I have enough experience to keep'em alive.

I think I'm learning towards getting "Fire Red" cherry shrimp, since the bloody mary's don't breed true, and I'd like to limit culling to very infrequently (>1 month between cullings).

As for the yellow shrimp, I had the "goldenback" variant show up in my "mixed" cherry tank (it was a mix of cherries all the way up to painted fire reds), and I can't really say I'm a fan. I'd rather get high quality yellows without the goldenback. And I'm staying faaaaaaaaar away from anything that's not Neocaridina heteropoda/davidii color morphs...

For the blues, I think high quality blue dreams is what I want. Blue Tigers (and OEBTs) are off the list because I'd really like to just have my shrimp in tap water.

If I decide to use RO/DI water + minerals, I'll definitely think about the yellow king kongs (they are quite pretty).

Now...what snails do I want, and what plants hehe....
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-17-2020, 09:06 PM
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@en7jos tigers can be kept in either Neocaridina or "Caridina" parameters.


@ichthyogeek the reason I mentioned tigers in the first place is because they generally *CAN* thrive in the same parameters as Neocaridina can! The first YKK colony I had was kept in mixed tap water... well, soft tap mixed with hard tap. For the short time that I had *that* colony, they thrived! Within about 3 months, all of the females were berried and there were babies *all* over the tank! Unfortunately, it was right after that that I also lost the colony... but it had nothing to do with the parameters. All of my tanks were poisoned by air pollutants... Those particular YKK's were also raised in Caridina parameters before I got them.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...asy-steps.html


My next batch of YKK's (different seller this time) were put into the same tank but they were much younger.... and there really wasn't any breeding. I eventually swapped the sand out to a buffering substrate (SL-Aqua) and there was a *little* bit of breeding, but again, not much. A year and a half later, I now have several berried females and tons of babies in the tank!

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...0711-ykks.html




So I'm not recommending these types of shrimp simply because I expect you'll use a buffering substrate, RO water and GH minerals... I'm recommending them because you want something that could potentially be easy to keep and looks great! Assuming the water you currently use is suitable for shrimp. In other words, you might not need to do anything special to keep them!
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-17-2020, 09:38 PM
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So what do you get if you cross a high-grade red cherry with a bloody mary? Red shell and red insides???
Probably a lot of culls for a lot of generations! They simply come from very different lines if the BM truly come from the chocolate line. And honestly, even if you took the years of work it would take to cull any that weren't perfect and breed them back as needed, I don't see how they would get much redder than either of the parent lines. The very best red fires are candy apple red. Good Bloody Marys are downright fire engine red. Here's a photo taken of the closest one to me as I was typing this post, a random 1/2" female, her color saturation should darken with age:



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I think I'm learning towards getting "Fire Red" cherry shrimp, since the bloody mary's don't breed true, and I'd like to limit culling to very infrequently (>1 month between cullings).
For what it's worth, and I've only had bloody marys since January (?) now, I've only seen 3 shrimp yet that I felt the need to cull from this colony. One is a male and still in there, probably breeding every dark red female as I speak. It's a tough tank to get into and catch things being a heavily planted 45 gallon cube with a massive stump in the center. But I see tiny babies all the time that are red as I could hope for. From the handful of generations to come up so far, I'm not worried that these are going to be difficult to keep culled at all though. If you want to avoid frequent culling it's blues you'll want to avoid. And even they have some lines that are said to breed fairly consistent. I have one that's doing pretty darn well for me at the moment and I wouldn't have believed it from the first 5 or 6 batches I tried (not exaggerating).
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Last edited by Blue Ridge Reef; 08-18-2020 at 02:35 PM. Reason: misread and responded incorrect information
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2020, 02:15 AM
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Tigers and Goldenbacks aren't the same.... one is Neocaridina and the other is Caridina...


And I forgot the question about Bloody Mary bred to high grade Painted Fire Reds... it's been done. One line was called "Savage Reds". In short, you breed red to red you get red. Sure, there may be culls but you will still get some red offspring.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2020, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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@ichthyogeek the reason I mentioned tigers in the first place is because they generally *CAN* thrive in the same parameters as Neocaridina can! The first YKK colony I had was kept in mixed tap water... well, soft tap mixed with hard tap. For the short time that I had *that* colony, they thrived! Within about 3 months, all of the females were berried and there were babies *all* over the tank! Unfortunately, it was right after that that I also lost the colony... but it had nothing to do with the parameters. All of my tanks were poisoned by air pollutants... Those particular YKK's were also raised in Caridina parameters before I got them.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...asy-steps.html


My next batch of YKK's (different seller this time) were put into the same tank but they were much younger.... and there really wasn't any breeding. I eventually swapped the sand out to a buffering substrate (SL-Aqua) and there was a *little* bit of breeding, but again, not much. A year and a half later, I now have several berried females and tons of babies in the tank!

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...0711-ykks.html

So I'm not recommending these types of shrimp simply because I expect you'll use a buffering substrate, RO water and GH minerals... I'm recommending them because you want something that could potentially be easy to keep and looks great! Assuming the water you currently use is suitable for shrimp. In other words, you might not need to do anything special to keep them!
Oh that's neat! Hmm...maybe I'll just get some YKKs then....decisions decisions...

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For what it's worth, and I've only had bloody marys since January (?) now, I've only seen 3 shrimp yet that I felt the need to cull from this colony. One is a male and still in there, probably breeding every dark red female as I speak. It's a tough tank to get into and catch things being a heavily planted 45 gallon cube with a massive stump in the center. But I see tiny babies all the time that are red as I could hope for. From the handful of generations to come up so far, I'm not worried that these are going to be difficult to keep culled at all though. If you want to avoid frequent culling it's blues you'll want to avoid. And even they have some lines that are said to breed fairly consistent. I have one that's doing pretty darn well for me at the moment and I wouldn't have believed it from the first 5 or 6 batches I tried (not exaggerating).
Hmmm....I'm okay with culling one tank ruthlessly. But culling three tanks (even if they're small) would be a lot of work for me on top of everything else I'd like to do (breed opae'ula, breed freshwater fish, breed saltwater fish, figure out semi-hydroponics, maybe get a snake?). I guess now I'm back to where I started with trying to figure out the best red shrimp...or I could always try to back-cross some Savage Reds, but start with fire reds to get back into shrimp breeding. I wonder why the blue lines have to be culled so frequently? Is this why they're significantly more expensive than regular reds?

Current thinking:
Blue Dream shrimp (and cull mercilessly from the shrimplets)
Yellow shrimp or Yellow King Kong shrimp (maybe start off with Yellow Neos, and work my way up to YKKs which I assume will be more expensive)
Start with Fire Red shrimp, and eventually cross breed with bloody mary shrimp to recreate Savage Reds.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2020, 02:33 PM
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Tigers and Goldenbacks aren't the same.... one is Neocaridina and the other is Caridina...
Reading comprehension fail on my part. I saw blue tigers and read it as a blue Neo trade name. Mea culpa. Will edit.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2020, 09:00 PM
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Just didnt' want there to be any confusion! Figured it might be a mistake!

@ichthyogeek It is possible to find YKK for $3-$4 per shrimp. Maybe cheaper in some cases. That's going to probably be about the same for Yellow Neos. Just be sure to shop around and see if you can find breeders or hobbyists within the USA rather than going for imports.
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