Solving my mystery... Cherry Shrimp deaths - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Solving my mystery... Cherry Shrimp deaths

Ok- so this is my second go at attempting to keep cherry shrimp. The first time I got shrimp, I received about 30. Within a little over a week- all but one shrimp died. During that timeframe I did a considerable amount of research to make sure that wouldn't happen again. I switched water conditioner over to Prime, and I started doing water changes with RO water remineralized with Salty Shrimp KH/GH.
In the meantime, I got a couple of ottos to help fight some brown algae my tank got.
After several weeks, I decided I was ready for more shrimp so I went ahead and got 30 more from two different sources just in case the water param change was too high from one of them.
I decided to drip acclimate substantially longer this go around than I did before just to be on the safe side so I drip acclimated for ~8-10 hours on both batches.
A few days later, I've now pulled out probably 10-15 dead shrimp already. I can't seem to figure out what's going on and I can't find my problem anywhere else on the internet so I have decided to make my first forum post asking for help.
I know you'll want all the water/tank parameters so I'll post them below...

PH-7.2-7.6 (CO2 change)
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 10-20

KH-5
GH-9
TDS~250

Fert: Easy Green, Seachem Iron

Thank you in advance!!!

PS: I attached a picture and video but this is my first post so I'm not sure if it worked or not. If not let me know and I can try again...

IMG_6393.mov

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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 04:49 PM
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Just curious. Do you know if the shrimp are home bred or imported? Also does the co2 vary a lot. Ive personally had much more success with shrimp without co2 than with co2. My friends planted tanks with co2 that were successful, they used a controller to ensure the ph stays consistent

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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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The shrimp are homebred. As far as CO2 goes, my plants wouldn't be very happy if I took that out, however I've kept it fairly low so it wouldn't interfere with the livestock.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 05:15 PM
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I wouldn't expect a .4 drop to be the cause of dead shrimp. I do a full point drop in two of mine and the shrimp seem unaffected, breed, behave normally. If the shrimp are imported, that may be the real cause. I won't buy imports for pennies on the dollar over home bred stock, I've had too many batches crash in tanks that other shrimp were thriving. How long has this tank been set up? I'm of the belief that a shrimp tank needs a lot longer than the typical nitrogen cycle that will make it ready for hearty fish. 90 days is usually my point where I'll add them if everything has gone perfectly.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 05:21 PM
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What were the water parameters the breeder keep his shrimp at? Are they a lot different than yours or very similar

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 06:23 PM
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Might want to test for copper in your water. Depending on where you get your plants, they can be treated with copper to get rid of pests before they ship (especially plants from eBay, etc), which is incredibly toxic to shrimp. Also, have you ever treated your tank with a copper based medicine? Supposedly it can leach into your silicone and your tank can release low levels for an indefinite amount of time.

Other things to check for are hydra or planaria...hard to see and easy to miss

Last edited by fermentedfunk; 06-16-2020 at 08:43 PM. Reason: update
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 08:37 PM
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I'm not a shrimp guy but do know the St.Louis area and some parts of the local water does have high iron. Does iron show up in your area and how does it effect shrimp?
Are you aware on water coming from lots of different sources in the St. Louis area and how that can change what you draw out of the tap?
If no others show with good ideas, perhaps a search of the local CCR (Consumer Confidence Report for you particular supplier might show anything odd. They are normally posted online for metro areas.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fermentedfunk View Post
Might want to test for copper in your water. Depending on where you get your plants, they can be treated with copper to get rid of pests before they ship (especially plants from eBay, etc). Also, have you ever treated your tank with a copper based medicine? Supposedly it can leach into your silicone and your tank can release low levels for an indefinite amount of time.

Other things to check for are hydra or planaria...hard to see and easy to miss
Copper tests 0 with API test kit, but I'll check again when I get home just to be sure. As far as hydra goes, I'm not familiar with that and I'll certainly have to look into it. For the planaria- I do have worms but I honestly can't tell if they're planaria- I attached pictures for reference- hopefully you pros can tell!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
I wouldn't expect a .4 drop to be the cause of dead shrimp. I do a full point drop in two of mine and the shrimp seem unaffected, breed, behave normally. If the shrimp are imported, that may be the real cause. I won't buy imports for pennies on the dollar over home bred stock, I've had too many batches crash in tanks that other shrimp were thriving. How long has this tank been set up? I'm of the belief that a shrimp tank needs a lot longer than the typical nitrogen cycle that will make it ready for hearty fish. 90 days is usually my point where I'll add them if everything has gone perfectly.
That's exactly what I was thinking about the PH and the reason I didn't get imported shrimp for my first shrimp!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwong2k View Post
What were the water parameters the breeder keep his shrimp at? Are they a lot different than yours or very similar

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I'll contact the sellers to see- hopefully I'll have that info ready to share soon!
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by j_iffy View Post
Copper tests 0 with API test kit, but I'll check again when I get home just to be sure. As far as hydra goes, I'm not familiar with that and I'll certainly have to look into it. For the planaria- I do have worms but I honestly can't tell if they're planaria- I attached pictures for reference- hopefully you pros can tell!

Attachment 899937 Attachment 899939
In the first pic, those are just detritus worms in the gravel, so that's fine.

Second pic.... could be either planaria (bad) or some other flatworm like rhabdocoela (not a problem). Can't tell from the photo. If it's planaria, it will have a slight triangular head shape when it stretches out, and it will also appear to have two eyes if magnified:
https://fishlab.com/planaria/

It seems that you have a lot of creatures in your tank though, so I would definitely keep an eye peeled for the dangerous critters
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fermentedfunk View Post
In the first pic, those are just detritus worms in the gravel, so that's fine.

Second pic.... could be either planaria (bad) or some other flatworm like rhabdocoela (not a problem). Can't tell from the photo. If it's planaria, it will have a slight triangular head shape when it stretches out, and it will also appear to have two eyes if magnified:
https://fishlab.com/planaria/

It seems that you have a lot of creatures in your tank though, so I would definitely keep an eye peeled for the dangerous critters
I'll try to see if I can't find more and get a better picture of the white worm when I get home... I wish I could see better if it had a triangular shape. I did buy pancur-c last week just in case but haven't used it yet since I can't tell if it's actually planaria- will keep posted with hopefully better pictures!
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 09:01 PM
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One is rhabdocoela flatworm. The smaller, white one.

the larger worms I can't be sure... i don't see a definite 'head', so maybe they're just earth worms or something else?


I also wonder if the tank has been treated with any medications.

Where the plants came from - any of them have weights on them?

What substrate?

Temp of the tank? Does it have a heater?
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
One is rhabdocoela flatworm. The smaller, white one.

the larger worms I can't be sure... i don't see a definite 'head', so maybe they're just earth worms or something else?


I also wonder if the tank has been treated with any medications.

Where the plants came from - any of them have weights on them?

What substrate?

Temp of the tank? Does it have a heater?
The tank hasn't been treated with any medications yet- i'm weary of putting any of that in the water!
Substrate is black eco-complete.
Plants came from modern aquarium and they didn't have weights on them.
Tank temp is 77 with an aqueon heater.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 09:31 PM
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I don't know if it could be related but why are you dosing extra iron. Most setups don't need it and are fine with the FE received from most micro ferts and tap. You might also have iron in the booster your using and @PlantedRich seems to think your area might have high iron in tap. No idea what FE levels are toxic to shrimp.


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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know if it could be related but why are you dosing extra iron. Most setups don't need it and are fine with the FE received from most micro ferts and tap. You might also have iron in the booster your using and @PlantedRich seems to think your area might have high iron in tap. No idea what FE levels are toxic to shrimp.
Hmm... Well I certainly underdose the iron but didn't know it'd be a culprit for problems... I was under the impression that I had a few plants that'd need the extra iron added. I also switched over to RO water if that makes a difference wether or not to add it in as a fert.

Should I stop dosing iron?
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2020, 10:14 PM
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How long has this tank been setup? What are you feeding? Any bacterial powders to grow biofilm?


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cherry shrimp, dead shrimp, red cherry, red cherry shrimp, shrimp

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