Salty Shrimp--GH or GH/KH+ - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 02:42 PM
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I would (and do) use GH only if keeping bees, regardless of the use of CO2. I'm of the mind that you set the tank's water parameters up for the most demanding fauna in the tank, and keep with them only what can adapt to that water. If using 0 KH water it shouldn't matter if you have a buffering substrate, since there should be no CACO3 to buffer out. pH swings from CO2 injection don't seem to bother shrimp at all in my own tanks. Having said that, I've documented here that I've wiped out 2 tanks already in 2020 by turning that dial a little too far to the left. And the problem with a 0 KH tank with CO2 is that it's tricky to estimate your CO2 concentration. @Greggz 120 gallon rainbow tank journal that he just changed to buffering soil has some good info regarding CO2 use in such tanks.

However, if OP likes tangerine tigers I'd use a GH/KH additive and go with tangerines and maybe add a color of Neos. That route would be easier to stay on top of CO2 concentration and probably more familiar to OP. And tangerine tigers are ridiculously prolific shrimp, maybe even more than cherries. It would be an easier recipe for success, at least.

I see people online claim to have bee colonies at 4 dKH; my own survived but almost never bred in my tap with a 2.5 dKH. Once I went to RO remineralized with GH only, I started seeing babies within weeks. I don't doubt claims that it can sometimes be done successfully with harder water but it never worked out for me. If wanting some KH value, I'd just keep shrimp that prefer that.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
I would (and do) use GH only if keeping bees, regardless of the use of CO2. I'm of the mind that you set the tank's water parameters up for the most demanding fauna in the tank, and keep with them only what can adapt to that water. If using 0 KH water it shouldn't matter if you have a buffering substrate, since there should be no CACO3 to buffer out. pH swings from CO2 injection don't seem to bother shrimp at all in my own tanks. Having said that, I've documented here that I've wiped out 2 tanks already in 2020 by turning that dial a little too far to the left. And the problem with a 0 KH tank with CO2 is that it's tricky to estimate your CO2 concentration. @Greggz 120 gallon rainbow tank journal that he just changed to buffering soil has some good info regarding CO2 use in such tanks.

However, if OP likes tangerine tigers I'd use a GH/KH additive and go with tangerines and maybe add a color of Neos. That route would be easier to stay on top of CO2 concentration and probably more familiar to OP. And tangerine tigers are ridiculously prolific shrimp, maybe even more than cherries. It would be an easier recipe for success, at least.

I see people online claim to have bee colonies at 4 dKH; my own survived but almost never bred in my tap with a 2.5 dKH. Once I went to RO remineralized with GH only, I started seeing babies within weeks. I don't doubt claims that it can sometimes be done successfully with harder water but it never worked out for me. If wanting some KH value, I'd just keep shrimp that prefer that.
That pretty much confirms what I've been seeing. I'll stick with the tangerine tigers for now and look again down the road at doing a dedicated tank once I've got some experience playing with water chemistry if I decide I want to do the more sensitive bee shrimp. It is good to know ph swings from CO2 don't necessarily affect shrimp, though.

Thanks guys.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 12:06 AM
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Little late to the party, but having kept bees on sand for a few years, I'd say it's not for the faint of heart. They seem more prone to bacterial infection, and changes in my tap has led to large losses a couple of times.

At the time, I did it because I couldn't afford soil and remineralizer. I've switched almost all of my tanks over to soil, and it's so much easier.

Honestly, it's not that expensive to do it right, and then you'll make the money back on the first few sales

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Little late to the party, but having kept bees on sand for a few years, I'd say it's not for the faint of heart. They seem more prone to bacterial infection, and changes in my tap has led to large losses a couple of times.

At the time, I did it because I couldn't afford soil and remineralizer. I've switched almost all of my tanks over to soil, and it's so much easier.

Honestly, it's not that expensive to do it right, and then you'll make the money back on the first few sales <a href="https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" >:-)</a>

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That's interesting. I wonder what it is about the sand that would increase the likelihood of bacterial infections.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 03:28 PM
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That's interesting. I wonder what it is about the sand that would increase the likelihood of bacterial infections.
It could be that certain things don't live quite as well in low pH (acidic) water as they do in higher pH (alkaline) water.

Almost anyone can attest to the fact that it can take longer to cycle a low pH tank than it does to cycle a high pH tank - starting from scratch.

There could very well be other factors at play as well.
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 08:09 PM
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That's interesting. I wonder what it is about the sand that would increase the likelihood of bacterial infections.
Like @Zoidburg mentioned, some bacteria thrive at higher pH/KH. I think that's part of it.

Additionally, I think soil supports more aerobic conditions and a different set of microfauna/bacteria. I think sand requires more work to keep healthy due to compaction.

I also believe their digestive system does better in more acidic conditions, so buffered soil is more forgiving.

Not saying sand doesn't work, but there's a lot more to worry about. I've also struggled to get more sensitive shrimp like blue bolts to breed in sand, so genetic history may play a part too.

For reference, my tap is usually about 50 TDS, between 1-2 dKH, and I have to add CaSO4 and MgSO4 to bring GH up. I target about 130-140 TDS and use RO to maintain.

This is pre-crash from last summer, and I have 18 left from well over a hundred in this 20 long :'(

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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KaylSoftpaws View Post
That's interesting. I wonder what it is about the sand that would increase the likelihood of bacterial infections.
Like @Zoidburg mentioned, some bacteria thrive at higher pH/KH. I think that's part of it.

Additionally, I think soil supports more aerobic conditions and a different set of microfauna/bacteria. I think sand requires more work to keep healthy due to compaction.

I also believe their digestive system does better in more acidic conditions, so buffered soil is more forgiving.

Not saying sand doesn't work, but there's a lot more to worry about. I've also struggled to get more sensitive shrimp like blue bolts to breed in sand, so genetic history may play a part too.

For reference, my tap is usually about 50 TDS, between 1-2 dKH, and I have to add CaSO4 and MgSO4 to bring GH up. I target about 130-140 TDS and use RO to maintain.

This is pre-crash from last summer, and I have 18 left from well over a hundred in this 20 long :'(

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Ouch. &#x1f615;

The chemistry makes sense. I'd forgotten about the pH and BB relationship. Never had to worry about it-- everywhere in Southeast Texas has hard water.

Now, I will say compaction is usually not an issue in my tanks. I keep a stupid amount of Malaysian Trumpet Snails on hand to help with that lol.
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-26-2020, 01:28 AM
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For cardina - use a buffered substrate and Salty Shrimp GH and youll be fine with c02. No need for KH.
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