Amanos unhappy and breathing heavily after EI dry fert dosing - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-09-2020, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Amanos unhappy and breathing heavily after EI dry fert dosing

Hello everyone. After having an inexplicable mass die-off of my 40 amano shrimp in my aquarium a couple of weeks ago, I introduced 2 new amanos in the tank to make sure that everything is going ok and that the water is ok for them. They've been with me for a week now, and so far they've been doing well. However, when I had a look at the aquarium about 2 hours after having dosed my fertilisers for the day, both of the shrimp were breathing rapidly and did not look happy at all. Let me give you the specs of the aquarium:


It's a 180 liter aquarium, 100cm L x 40cm W x 45cm H
Inhabitants are cardinal tetras, otos and the amanos
2 x 45W fluorescent tubes that are on for 6 hours daily
I'm injecting a fair amount of CO2, the drop checker shows green to light green
It's an iwagumi style scape that only has Eleocharis parvula
pH: 6,5
kH:11 degrees ( I believe the test kit is giving a false result; according to the kH/pH/CO2 chart, nothing would be able to survive in the aquarium)
NO2&NH3/NH4: 0
I'm dosing according to the EI and change 50% weekly.
All of my fertilisers are dry apart from Seachem's liquid Iron fertiliser.

I really am at a loss as to what might be happening. I was planning on getting more shrimp for the tank as 2 are not even close to being enough, but now I'm worried of losing them all again. When I had them previously, none ever showed any negative response because of the fertilisers. The only thing I can think of that is worth pointing out is that today, as I was not very focused on what I was doing, I dosed both Phosphorus and Iron instead of dosing them on different days. If anyone has any ideas or similar experiences, do let me know, I really am worried there is something that I'm not quite getting here...
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-09-2020, 09:24 PM
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During the mass die-off where the amanos just acclimated?

You should measure co2 by a drop in ph. Generally your looking for a 1.0 drop from degassed (let some aquarium water set overnite) and test ph vs ph of tank toward end of co2 period. That and the drop checker, too many variables affect the co2 chart/calculator.

EI dosing shouldn't affect amanos, I EI dose high on all my setups and have amanos and neos no problem. I'm sure you need alot of FE for toxicity for amanos, but do you even need the extra FE, If your dosing EI and using CSM+B or something like Seachem Flourish it's probably enough Iron.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-09-2020, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
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During the mass die-off where the amanos just acclimated?

You should measure co2 by a drop in ph. Generally your looking for a 1.0 drop from degassed (let some aquarium water set overnite) and test ph vs ph of tank toward end of co2 period. That and the drop checker, too many variables affect the co2 chart/calculator.

EI dosing shouldn't affect amanos, I EI dose high on all my setups and have amanos and neos no problem. I'm sure you need alot of FE for toxicity for amanos, but do you even need the extra FE, If your dosing EI and using CSM+B or something like Seachem Flourish it's probably enough Iron.
The amanos had been in the tank for 2 months prior to dying. I can't get my hands on CSM+B around here, and I don't use Flourish either (which may perhaps have to change), so I thought I'd resort to dosing a tiny amount of iron just to make sure there's no deficiencies; there is no other iron source in any of my other fertilisers, so an overdose seems unlikely to me. It's just really weird that something that I've been doing for a while now has never caused any issues and now there seems to be something going wrong.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-09-2020, 10:03 PM
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Breathing heavy, I mean it sounds like a co2 issue. I would double check those numbers and also figure out for sure what your KH is. My KH is 8 and I don't have a problem, I doubt 11 would be either.


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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-09-2020, 10:34 PM
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What's your gh and TDS? Not only do shrimp rely on gh for their shells but the higher the gh the lower metal toxicity becomes. You said you dosed iron which is why I ask.

If the problem really is only occurring after adding ferts, then it is like a contamination or toxicity problem. You'll need to double check yourself and apply the scientific method and only test one variable at a time. For instance, maybe an RO water change set the stage for more toxicity during fertilization.

I've accidentally killed some of my shrimp by raising my kh too fast. They got zoomy, twitchy then died. This was due to osmosis and tds changing to quickly. The kh and TDS shot up in that case
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-10-2020, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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What's your gh and TDS? Not only do shrimp rely on gh for their shells but the higher the gh the lower metal toxicity becomes. You said you dosed iron which is why I ask.

If the problem really is only occurring after adding ferts, then it is like a contamination or toxicity problem. You'll need to double check yourself and apply the scientific method and only test one variable at a time. For instance, maybe an RO water change set the stage for more toxicity during fertilization.

I've accidentally killed some of my shrimp by raising my kh too fast. They got zoomy, twitchy then died. This was due to osmosis and tds changing to quickly. The kh and TDS shot up in that case
gH is 10 degrees, and TDS is around 190. Given the fact that the shrimp do need minerals, I tend not to use R/O when changing water and opt for my tap which is quite hard. This morning, I found one of the two shrimp on its back twitching... I'm assuming he'll be dead within the day. The other one's hidden behind one of the rocks and isn't moving. Perhaps I should dose my fertilisers all separately and see if that gets any better? Maybe I should go get 5 new ones and see how they react, although I do doubt that these ones I have are just the "weak" ones.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-10-2020, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddrizzle View Post
What's your gh and TDS? Not only do shrimp rely on gh for their shells but the higher the gh the lower metal toxicity becomes. You said you dosed iron which is why I ask.

If the problem really is only occurring after adding ferts, then it is like a contamination or toxicity problem. You'll need to double check yourself and apply the scientific method and only test one variable at a time. For instance, maybe an RO water change set the stage for more toxicity during fertilization.

I've accidentally killed some of my shrimp by raising my kh too fast. They got zoomy, twitchy then died. This was due to osmosis and tds changing to quickly. The kh and TDS shot up in that case
gH is 10 degrees, and TDS is around 190. Given the fact that the shrimp do need minerals, I tend not to use R/O when changing water and opt for my tap which is quite hard. This morning, I found one of the two shrimp on its back twitching... I'm assuming he'll be dead within the day. The other one's hidden behind one of the rocks and isn't moving. Perhaps I should dose my fertilisers all separately and see if that gets any better? Maybe I should go get 5 new ones and see how they react, although I do doubt that these ones I have are just the "weak" ones.
At this I don't think anyone will have a simple answer for you so I'd revert to the truth and facts as best as possible - leverage the scientific method and change one thing at a time.

It'll take way more time but you'll also come out that much more educated at the end.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-10-2020, 05:22 PM
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One thing I would do is not add any more shrimp for a while, until you figure a few things out. Is their anything with too much copper in it that can be killing them?


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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-10-2020, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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At this I don't think anyone will have a simple answer for you so I'd revert to the truth and facts as best as possible - leverage the scientific method and change one thing at a time.

It'll take way more time but you'll also come out that much more educated at the end.

Roger that, hopefully I'll end up discovering what the issue is...

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One thing I would do is not add any more shrimp for a while, until you figure a few things out. Is their anything with too much copper in it that can be killing them?

From what I understand, there is nothing I'm adding that even remotely contains copper, so that's a no. I'd thought about it as well but there seems to be nothing that could be introducing copper into the water
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-13-2020, 01:55 AM
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From what I understand, there is nothing I'm adding that even remotely contains copper, so that's a no. I'd thought about it as well but there seems to be nothing that could be introducing copper into the water
It's a common misconception in the hobby that shrimp are only sensitive to copper. They can be sensitive to any heavy metal in excess, which is likely what's occurring, and compounded by the high amounts of CO2.
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